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Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

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Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#121

Post by hugodan »

nullc wrote: post #109
walrus01 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not trying to defend Mozilla doing this, and I don't support sending data to cloud based services like this in a way that users won't understand. But I also think that the state of the art in small LLM and user device capabilities aren't there yet to put a "good enough to be actually useful" local-only LLM as a prepackaged thing in a mass market distributed browser. You don't want a browser that takes 10GB of ex…

Have you tried Ling-3.0-tiny? It runs fine on CPU-- on a 14700KF gets 40tg/s and 250pp/s and on a ordinary gpu (RTX 4070) does over 200tg/s with no MTP and 7185pp/s. (my figures are Q8, though presumably a good Q4 would be faster) It's certainly not as capable as something that needs a high memory gpu for quick performance, but I was quite impressed with it for what it is. (and fwiw, I had it translate your last para…

Andreessen Horowitz led Mistral's €385M Series A in December 2023.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#122

Post by walrus01 »

ryukoposting wrote: post #115
walrus01 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not trying to defend Mozilla doing this, and I don't support sending data to cloud based services like this in a way that users won't understand. But I also think that the state of the art in small LLM and user device capabilities aren't there yet to put a "good enough to be actually useful" local-only LLM as a prepackaged thing in a mass market distributed browser. You don't want a browser that takes 10GB of ex…

I'm worried that the middle could fall out of the computing market across the board. If you can afford to keep up with the upgrade treadmill, you'll get private, local inference capabilities. If you can't afford to stay on the treadmill, you'll be stuck with whatever cloudshit malware Silicon Valley wants to foist on you. I acknowledge that this is already the case, to some extent. The cheapest laptops at Best Buy ar…

Remember how in like 1999/2000 Sun was trying to predict that everyone's computer would be some form of thin terminal in the future? Turns out they were very wrong on the part about it running on Sun server back-end infrastructure, but that same general purpose has now been accomplished through other methods where a lot of people do basically EVERYTHING inside a web browser tab to some external cloud service.

Now add the need for external inference because very few random consumers are going to buy a $3000 laptop when they can get the $600 laptop at Best Buy, and that trend further escalates.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#123

Post by matheusmoreira »

walrus01 wrote: post #59
Iolaum wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years ago Firefox was the go to browser if you wanted to have "some" privacy in your browsing (together with uBlock origin). With news like this I m really wondering if my views are outdated and I need to to some good researching on maintaining some privacy in what I m browsing.

Mozilla has been in a bit of a recursive feedback loop death spiral for years now of: Browser loses market share -> try some weird thing -> very few people like or use it -> browser loses market share -> management says "oh shit we're losing market share we better try some weird thing" I say this as a person that uses firefox with ublock origin 99.5% of the time. It's better in my opinion than Chrome. I can at least…

Why do they keep trying weird things? That makes no sense. People just want a browser.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#124

Post by graemep »

peri-cl wrote: post #101
walrus01 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not trying to defend Mozilla doing this, and I don't support sending data to cloud based services like this in a way that users won't understand. But I also think that the state of the art in small LLM and user device capabilities aren't there yet to put a "good enough to be actually useful" local-only LLM as a prepackaged thing in a mass market distributed browser. You don't want a browser that takes 10GB of ex…

Well, it depends on the task, doesn't it? "running shoes I looked at last week" / "Here's what I found in your browsing history:" doesn't need a 119 billion parameter frontier model; it's a RAG problem for the 0.6 B embedding models. That's an example Mozilla offers. Presumably to explain to their users why it's essential they hand over their last week's browsing history for this convenience (but it isn't! Hardly for…

> "running shoes I looked at last week" / "Here's what I found in your browsing history:"

Does that need an LLM at all?

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#125

Post by graemep »

walrus01 wrote: post #119
pessimizer wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking out of your ass. It is so ironic that "normal people don't care about privacy, just you nerds" is an HN meme. Everybody I know cares, often in an extreme way, and I barely hang out with technical people in real life. I've met people so irrational and nontechnical about modern invasions of privacy that they think that it is being driven by demons. The reason this is a meme on HN is because tons of HN po…

I do not fundamentally disagree with you but it's also an extremely well known phenomenon that average non tech users, in the aggregate of millions of people, will click almost any "yes/I agree/continue/Next" step on a software installer or new user sign up workflow for anything, without reading the ToS. People blithly sign up for all sorts of cloud based things and services without understanding their full ramificat…

> it's also an extremely well known phenomenon that average non tech users, in the aggregate of millions of people, will click almost any "yes/I agree/continue/Next" step on a software installer or new user sign up workflow for anything, without reading the ToS. People blithly sign up for all sorts of cloud based things and services without understanding their full ramifications all the time.

I would put a lot of that down to learned helplessness.

A lot of non-tech people tell me that "they already know" and that it is impossible to avoid. I have been told I am naive to think its possible to keep data private.

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#126

Post by repeekad »

walrus01 wrote: post #47
peri-cl wrote: post #5

This is an excellent use case for completely local, small model inference, yet for inexplicable reasons Mozilla wants to normalize uploading your entire private browsing history to a cloud. These (Mistral's and Mozilla's) marketing pages aren't candid enough to clearly explain the difference between local and cloud inference, and that they're asking you to consent to enabling the latter. I'd call that the bare minimu…

I am not trying to defend Mozilla doing this, and I don't support sending data to cloud based services like this in a way that users won't understand. But I also think that the state of the art in small LLM and user device capabilities aren't there yet to put a "good enough to be actually useful" local-only LLM as a prepackaged thing in a mass market distributed browser. You don't want a browser that takes 10GB of ex…

But apple said their AI only falls back to the private cloud when it has to? Just kidding, near every request needs to fallback, because a phone can't actually run a real LLM, no matter how many "neural cores" it has..

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#127

Post by threecheese »

pessimizer wrote: post #116
well_ackshually wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only people having an expectation of translations being done locally is exactly the nerds that keep whining that it's not using a local model. Every single normal person, when presented with a "translate" button either know it's going online, or don't care about it. Begging the purists to run away from Firefox at this point so they can stop wasting everyone's time. Your demands for examplarity and whining about m…

You're talking out of your ass. It is so ironic that "normal people don't care about privacy, just you nerds" is an HN meme. Everybody I know cares, often in an extreme way, and I barely hang out with technical people in real life. I've met people so irrational and nontechnical about modern invasions of privacy that they think that it is being driven by demons. The reason this is a meme on HN is because tons of HN po…

PREACH

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#128

Post by DANmode »

peri-cl wrote: post #5

This is an excellent use case for completely local, small model inference, yet for inexplicable reasons Mozilla wants to normalize uploading your entire private browsing history to a cloud. These (Mistral's and Mozilla's) marketing pages aren't candid enough to clearly explain the difference between local and cloud inference, and that they're asking you to consent to enabling the latter. I'd call that the bare minimu…

> for inexplicable reasons Mozilla wants to normalize uploading your entire private browsing history to a cloud.

Mozilla does a great job of doing all sorts of things that help Google, these days…

Re: Mistral X Mozilla: Private, Multilingual AI Browsing

#130

Post by glenstein »

peri-cl wrote: post #5

This is an excellent use case for completely local, small model inference, yet for inexplicable reasons Mozilla wants to normalize uploading your entire private browsing history to a cloud. These (Mistral's and Mozilla's) marketing pages aren't candid enough to clearly explain the difference between local and cloud inference, and that they're asking you to consent to enabling the latter. I'd call that the bare minimu…

I suppose some clarity would have been nice but I try to err on the side of charitable interpretation with these things, especially with how much MDS there tends to be in the hn comment sections. This does just seem to be like a high level announcement of the overall partnership, though some clarity over local versus cloud would have been nice.

But they do link to a page describing the "smart window" which goes into a bit more detail:

https://www.firefox.com/en-US/smart-window/?view=update

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