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PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

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Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#141

Post by hypfer »

Aurornis wrote: post #134
eugenekolo wrote: post #29

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

In my hobby groups there has always been a second, smaller, more intimate invite-only space for people doing the deep work. It’s the only way to do the work in the age of 1000-member Discords where important conversations get lost in the scroll back instantly. The experience in these spaces is largely the same. LLMs can be used there, too, but when the experts are using them with experience to back it up the results…

> Outside of a few vocal people trying to enforce the status hierarchy, most people don’t care who releases their jailbreak or PS5 exploit. They just want it. Whoever gets it to them first becomes the new king.

"Commodification" might be a relevant word here.

You can fight that by "building a personal brand", but then you're suddenly brand building instead of hacking, and hacking was what you actually wanted to do.

I guess it works best if you're not in it for clout but because you want something to exist. But even then it is difficult.

> There were also 3 people who found the same exploit independent and some large amount of money on the line for the first of them to report it.

Ah yes, game theory. Oof.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#142

Post by lightedman »

sva_ wrote: post #33
arnaudsm wrote: post #12

Misleading title, there's another major reason: it's an embargo agreement violation that jeopardizes Linux support on PS5. https://x.com/theflow0/status/2099987019954831744

> The scene used to be a group of highly talented researchers, but now it is just a bunch of noobs using LLMs and writing hacks they don't even understand. Slop kiddies found the only hypervisor bug left, which I had also found a while ago, and decided to report to Sony. Sounds like he is salty that somebody found an exploit using LLM that he found manually (which probably took a significant amount of time.) I can pa…

"Sounds like he is salty that somebody found an exploit using LLM that he found manually"

No, he's salty that this last remaining hypervisor exploit is going to get patched, causing his PS5 Linux project to get wholly-fucked as now there will be no (currently-known) way to sideload the OS. Reading comprehension is very important here.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#143

Post by DaSHacka »

sva_ wrote: post #33
arnaudsm wrote: post #12

Misleading title, there's another major reason: it's an embargo agreement violation that jeopardizes Linux support on PS5. https://x.com/theflow0/status/2099987019954831744

> The scene used to be a group of highly talented researchers, but now it is just a bunch of noobs using LLMs and writing hacks they don't even understand. Slop kiddies found the only hypervisor bug left, which I had also found a while ago, and decided to report to Sony. Sounds like he is salty that somebody found an exploit using LLM that he found manually (which probably took a significant amount of time.) I can pa…

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've seen this behavior from others in the space before too, it's not a one-off. They refuse to use LLMs themselves, and state as much publicly "I simply don't need to resort to using the slop machine, my skills are superior", yet FUME when others they deem as "lesser" are able to use it to achieve the same results as them, oftentimes faster.

I can guarantee this post would not have been made had he not been the one to find that vuln first.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#144

Post by PunchyHamster »

misterderpie wrote: post #79
aeonflux wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. Same thing did happen to many work places. People at all levels proxy questions through LLMs and don't even bother to read/trim/edit the response. Funny, how suddenly a tight, 1-2 sentence response on point is a sign of skill.

Wasn't there an article here, or was it under another HN post as a comment? Someone pointed out that the before the dawn of LLMs, "bad contributors" had a rate limiter of sorts. Now anyone can prompt their LLM and throw their output at you, shifting the burden entirely on the reviewer at highest possible speed.

It's so much worse than just that. Because they will also decide on how problem should be solved by prompting LLM and ask you to argument doing it any other way vs the LLM slop they pasted

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#146

Post by HPsquared »

WD-42 wrote: post #132
inanutshellus wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As brevity is the soul of wit, I shall be brief. [then bloviates on and on.]" ~Polonius

I’d have written a shorter comment, but I didn’t have the time.

That's the essence of it, I suppose. Cheap walls of text.

Edit: although another quote comes to mind- "Quantity has a quality of its own."

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#147

Post by BrtByte »

eugenekolo wrote: post #29

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

For a hobby community, getting to the answer isn't necessarily the main value

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#148

Post by BrtByte »

Aurornis wrote: post #134
eugenekolo wrote: post #29

Hobby groups projects like this are less fun for a lot of people who used to enjoy interacting with smart people. It's definitely become a game of just spam claude for answers with zero understanding or care for how anything actually works. That's fine to get things done and fine for a lot of side projects, but it definitely ruins the joy that people have in understanding systems and working with intellectuals.

In my hobby groups there has always been a second, smaller, more intimate invite-only space for people doing the deep work. It’s the only way to do the work in the age of 1000-member Discords where important conversations get lost in the scroll back instantly. The experience in these spaces is largely the same. LLMs can be used there, too, but when the experts are using them with experience to back it up the results…

The status thing is probably part of it, but I'm not sure "a kid with Deepseek can make a sloppy version" actually shows that the old hierarchy was meaningless.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#149

Post by CamperBob2 »

latexr wrote: post #95
p-e-w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but isn't it nice to have a society where at least some people can enjoy their work? That’s an interesting question. I thought about it for a minute and was surprised that I came to the conclusion that the answer isn’t obviously “yes”. An analogous question is “isn't it nice to have a society where at least some people are rich?”, and I think that question should make it clearer to many people why that is so.

> An analogous question is “isn't it nice to have a society where at least some people are rich?” There’s a crucial difference between the two questions. “Rich” is a relative term: If everyone had the same amount of money, no one would be rich, you need someone to be worse off (poor) to have someone better off (rich). But someone enjoying their work has no bearing on someone else’s enjoyment of theirs.

you need someone to be worse off (poor) to have someone better off (rich).

The fact that so many people believe this is what bums me out.

You need to understand something: the people who want you to think this way do not have your best interests in mind, any more than the rabid right-wing Trumpers do.

Re: PS5 Linux lead quits: "a bunch of noobs using LLMs" that "they don't understand"

#150

Post by finaard »

DaSHacka wrote: post #112
lultimouomo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Funny, how suddenly a tight, 1-2 sentence response on point is a sign of skill. Wasn't it always?

I agree, anecdotally I've always noticed a huge amount of my peers lacked professional communication skills even pre-LLMs. A lot of people get this idea that "more verbosity = better" instead of optimizing for conciseness and information-density. I largely blame minimum word-count essays from school assignments.

Verbosity can be fine, but you'd want a simple enough text, with the verbosity separated. I still write emails with footnotes, and thanks to UTF-8 I now have all the numbers available.

Amusingly enough the advent of HTML-emails didn't produce any better formatted mails, despite the extra formatting options, than what you can do with a plain text email supported by a proper text editor.

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