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Let's make quality the norm again

forbrukerradet.no

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Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#461

Post by jerf »

huurtehoog wrote: post #316
jerf wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything has become a lemon market: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons Even if a brand stays solid for 100 years, for all I know as I'm standing there in the store deciding whether to buy something, private equity bought them two quarters ago and hollowed them out. Harvard MBAs/private equity sees brand reputation as just another resource to be converted into money. If I were a billionaire my dream…

People blame MBAs a lot, but most CEOs are Engineers or Economists by training.

No joke, my final statistics class I had to take for my computer science degree back in the late 1990s would very frequently use as a sample problem "here is the run statistics of some industrial creation process, how much excess quality can we statistically remove from the process in order to hit metrics, but only barely?"

Even back then, long before the word "enshittification" was coined, it made me squirm.

It did make a bit more sense back then. In the early 20th century there was a lot of utterly massive overproduction that greatly increased the price of some good for everyone while not giving improved service. I recall a house a relative had, which has about an 18"x18"x12" cast iron grating to distribute forced air between two floors. Unbelievably overproduced for the purpose. In the 1990s quality was still decent, and overproduced in some areas. But the trend was clear, and yea verily these 30 years later, it most certainly continued.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#462

Post by jerf »

f30e3dfed1c9 wrote: post #369
Kirby64 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if you wanted a proper BIFL suitcase you needed to spend even more and get a Briggs and Riley suitcase. Also, Travelpro Platinum suitcases aren’t the cheapest… but how much do you think is so expensive? Sales should put them sub $200, maybe less if you bought awhile ago.

Curious, so I checked. A Briggs and Riley Essential 22" Carry-On Expandable Spinner is $729. Sorry, but that's insane. I admittedly travel less than I used to but I bought my basic carry-on for about $110 more than 20 years ago. Close enough to "buy it for life" for me. It's not much worse for the wear, I fully expect to have it for 20 more years.

"Shrinkflation" as a word only caught on when the process got to the point it is completely impossible to miss. It has actually been going on for a while. If you take a "basket of goods" since the 1990s, inflation will be such and such a number... but if you insist that the "basket of goods" match not just function but quality your inflation number skyrockets. Now, I can personally vouch for the fact that in the 1990s there was certainly still "cheap luggage" and "more expensive luggage"... what's different is the gap that has opened between them in the price, and how cheap the cheap stuff has gotten.

The cumulative level of the "hedonic adjustments" they keep stuffing in, ostensibly to adjust for the natural improvement of things but in practice over the sum of them to allow them to keep stepping down the quality of the basket of goods under the cover of "oh, we're just trying to maintain it" is pretty substantial. They've hidden a lot of things in the electronics. Other things aren't doing the exponential advance thing the electronics did for so long.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#463

Post by Kirby64 »

f30e3dfed1c9 wrote: post #369
Kirby64 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if you wanted a proper BIFL suitcase you needed to spend even more and get a Briggs and Riley suitcase. Also, Travelpro Platinum suitcases aren’t the cheapest… but how much do you think is so expensive? Sales should put them sub $200, maybe less if you bought awhile ago.

Curious, so I checked. A Briggs and Riley Essential 22" Carry-On Expandable Spinner is $729. Sorry, but that's insane. I admittedly travel less than I used to but I bought my basic carry-on for about $110 more than 20 years ago. Close enough to "buy it for life" for me. It's not much worse for the wear, I fully expect to have it for 20 more years.

If you don't travel a lot, sure. Especially because older luggage generally was more sturdy (or, at least, there was a higher 'floor' to quality). This suitcase is meant for people who travel a lot. If you're a consultant or on airline staff, having bulletproof reliability and a warranty that is endless is a big perk.

Also, $110 20 years ago is ~$200 in today's money (even more if it was 'more than').

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#464

Post by cestith »

VorpalWay wrote: post #380
dghlsakjg wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something to be said for places like Costco that has an absurdly generous return policy (are they the only major retailer left that does this? REI used to, but they got rid of it). I believe Costco requires their vendors to eat the return if they want to remain a vendor. Doesn't meant that Costco is immune to bad products, but it severely punishes vendors that sell garbage and protects customers.

I'm not sure that is such a strong signal. The minimum return policy by law in EU is 14 days. IKEA has a one year open box return policy. I would not argue that modern IKEA is high quality. I'm also sure I have seen other stores with a 1 year return policy, though I can't remember which ones off the top of my head. (That is "return undamaged working product" return policy, not warranty policy. Exceptions apply to per…

Ikea is not high quality compared to most gallery-style furniture. If you're buying flat-pack furniture to assemble at home few brands will serve you better.

Oddly enough, none of my bookcases in my new house are Billy ones though. Yes, I still have loads of physical books. I found a Chinese brand of all-metal bookcases that are lighter weight than Hon or Steelcase but hold a lot more weight than Ikea bookcases of similar price. They don't suffer from the famous bowed shelf problem most MDF shelves get. They're also packed flat. They even disassemble and reassemble neatly for moving or storage. It's Oseillc, which is a brand of Outstar Office Solutions, Ltd. They also make a little institutional, industrial, shop, and retail furniture under the parent company's own brand.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#465

Post by maerF0x0 »

phyzome wrote: post #315
maerF0x0 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, yes. I put my approximate youtube numbers into chatGPT and it estimates $2.40-$9 a month, so at most I'm earning them on par with their cheapest offering.

I recommend using a calculator rather than a chatbot. (Speaking of quality.)

It wrote a program and used publicly available numbers as the inputs. We're not in the "how many r's in strawberry" era anymore.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#466

Post by maerF0x0 »

ip26 wrote: post #361
maerF0x0 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody hates ads, but no-one is willing to pay a penny for a service they use daily. I wish they would price the service commensurate to what they earn with ads. My ad watching gives them a few cents, and yet they want $8.99 for a month or some gems.

The dark part is you, as a consumer who is willing to pay to not watch ads, are worth considerably more than a few cents to advertise to. In fact, the more you are willing to pay to have no ads, the more valuable showing ads to you is…

That's an interesting point, reminds me of the dark pattern of donation options at checkout used to check for disposable income which the store could have captured.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#467

Post by VorpalWay »

cestith wrote: post #464
VorpalWay wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that is such a strong signal. The minimum return policy by law in EU is 14 days. IKEA has a one year open box return policy. I would not argue that modern IKEA is high quality. I'm also sure I have seen other stores with a 1 year return policy, though I can't remember which ones off the top of my head. (That is "return undamaged working product" return policy, not warranty policy. Exceptions apply to per…

Ikea is not high quality compared to most gallery-style furniture. If you're buying flat-pack furniture to assemble at home few brands will serve you better. Oddly enough, none of my bookcases in my new house are Billy ones though. Yes, I still have loads of physical books. I found a Chinese brand of all-metal bookcases that are lighter weight than Hon or Steelcase but hold a lot more weight than Ikea bookcases of si…

For books an important features is that the shelves have doors and a back, to have to dust off the books less often. Do yours come with that? I'm not finding that brand on any Swedish retailer from a quick search either, so not sure how relevant it is.

I have some older Billy shelves that have been very solid, even when overloaded with books (I too have a lot of physical books, a lot of them older and not available as anything except physical, quite a few even predating the ISBN system).

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#468

Post by ninalanyon »

Kirby64 wrote: post #312
saturn8601 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also other tricks I fell for. I think I saw a recommendation for Travelpro on Buy it for life(Its been a while so dont remember fully). Nice luggage but expensive. I took a risk and bought it. I received it the day I was rushing to travel and there was some "registration card" that you had to fill out by a certain time that unlocked lifetime warranty else you were stuck with a shorter limited warranty. That…

Yeah, if you wanted a proper BIFL suitcase you needed to spend even more and get a Briggs and Riley suitcase. Also, Travelpro Platinum suitcases aren’t the cheapest… but how much do you think is so expensive? Sales should put them sub $200, maybe less if you bought awhile ago.

No idea if they are still as good but Samsonite used to be astonishingly good luggage and good value too. I still have two suitcases from nearly forty years ago. They are very scuffed but still intact and unbroken having survived very harsh airport luggage handling in out of the way places (literally thrown out of planes onto the tarmac). Mostly I use an IT brand [1] suitcase that is much lighter and was much cheaper but it is also holding up well after fifteen years use. The rubber has worn off two of the wheels though.

[1] https://itluggage.com/

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#469

Post by ndriscoll »

mitxela wrote: post #427
akoboldfrying wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying for an ad-free service will prevent ads. Example: YouTube Premium.

Great example! YouTube is currently being sued because people with Premium still get ads. Granted they're the ones creators put in their own videos, which is kind of a technicality. Premium does block the overt ads that YouTube itself pushes. (There's no telling if it blocks submarine ads that are videos) However, it was promised to block all ads, and that's what the lawsuit is about.

I don't see why that's a technicality. Youtube has plenty of rules already for their business partners. They could definitely make it so e.g. no paid advertising is allowed, or all paid advertising must have metadata attached so that premium users never see it, etc.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#470

Post by ninalanyon »

WalterBright wrote: post #202
jolt42 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really pisses me off there are used car lots that obviously prey on the poor. I asked for their cash price and they wouldn't give me one, or it was ridiculously priced. They just want for people to pay off a debt and all the interest that goes with it.

A car dealership makes most of their money off of the financing. > I asked for their cash price and they wouldn't give me one When I bought a car from a dealer, the dealer told me that what I wanted was impossible. So I walked out and got in my car, and started to back out. The salesman came running out and agreed to my terms. The trick to making a good deal is a willingness to walk away. P.S. My accounting teacher u…

> The trick to making a good deal is a willingness to walk away.

Not just the willingness but the ability to live without if the salesman doesn't cave in. If you need the car (or other goods) now you might not have that luxury.

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