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EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

bbc.com

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#721

Post by rsynnott »

whisperenjoyer wrote: post #690
Fnoord wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the Brexit campaign was manipulated by a state actor (or rather: 'a criminal actor disguised as a state'). None of the alt-right nationalism is in the long-term benefits of the country. This is globalism, the end game. You either team up, thereby reducing your costs, or you get swallowed. Ask Ukraine, Tibet, Hong Kong how it worked out for them not belonging to a bigger team. So divide and conquer is a logical…

> Ask Ukraine The whole political course of Ukraine in the last ~20 years is mostly about teaming up with EU and NATO, isn't it?

... No. Not until this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#722

Post by SyneRyder »

pantalaimon wrote: post #457
embedding-shape wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been around both, the ESC isn't nearly as drug-fueled as the other, for better or worse.

Only if you don't count alcohol

Ahh, that one time the Belarussian delegation tried importing so much alcohol into [host country] to give away for free to everyone at the artist party, that it was all seized at the [host country] border and caused a minor diplomatic incident. The free chocolate branded with the artist's face made it in though. Fun times.

And that wasn't the year that Belarus sent "I Love Belarus" as their Eurovision song.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#723

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

fidotron wrote: post #665
lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the other part: if associate membership is a thing then won't half of the EU start thinking that's their future? Presumably by "half of the EU" you mean (sometimes) euro-sceptic states like Hungary or Poland? Well, these are not in EU because some illuminati/lizard people tricked them into joining and now won't allow them to leave, like some of their politicians would like you to believe, but because they e…

There is a strong case that much of the eastern bloc were tricked into joining, by the UK, in order to weaken the Franco-German efforts for ever closer union. This was even a joke in the UK at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE

Could you elaborate regarding how exactly were eastern bloc countries "tricked" into joining by the UK? And what prevents them from leaving now that the tricksters from UK have long since left themselves?

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#724

Post by arethuza »

nephihaha wrote: post #637
arethuza wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear that Turkey would be "imminently" joining the EU was one of the scare stories used by the Brexit campaign in the UK.

There are already quite a few Turks in the UK, but I don't remember Turkey being used as a specific scare story. (I voted Remain... Have to point this out continually.) Either way, it's clear that UK migration levels have not been diminished by Brexit, and much of it is coming from outside the EU... So whatever one thinks of the issue it is bigger than Europe.

Dominic Cummings said that the Turkey immigration scare tactic was an important factor in the Brexit result:

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/08/12/cummings-brexit-confessio...

The warnings before Brexit were that it would increase immigration - and look what happened!

Edit: The Turkey stuff was on Cummings blog - don't know if its still there.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#725

Post by severino »

konradx wrote: post #359

Europe definitely needs to find replacements for the USA as a trusted partner. The US now supports Russia in its war against Ukraine, imposes random tariffs, pressures European companies over DEI (I'm not particularly woke myself, but I think equal opportunities regardless of race, for example, is a good idea), and makes threats against Greenland, Canada and Iceland. It also puts pressure on free speech and EU digita…

> The US now supports Russia in its war against Ukraine

Let's be serious. If the US supported Russia in its war against Ukraine, there would be no Ukraine now.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#726

Post by fidotron »

mejutoco wrote: post #681
fidotron wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually going to raise questions as to why the EU are A-OK with this now when a possible interpretation of associate membership is it's what Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. All depends on what an associate member is of course.

> Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. You are assigning too much responsibility to the EU here and none to the other actors responsible for Brexit. It borders on propaganda, but I do not want to assume ill intent. And Cameron, didnt he say he would guide UK no matter the result and then resigned when Brexit won?

Brexit was obviously going to happen a good decade before the referendum, the tension was so blatant. This idea people were conned into voting leave is just utter nonsense - they'd been chomping at the bit for the opportunity for years.

Now the UK has managed to ramp up the tension dramatically, but without some easy foreign political bogeyman to blame. It's not going to end well either, but it's not clear exactly what the endgame is. This is why the Greens, Reform and Restore are suddenly things.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#727

Post by rsynnott »

paganel wrote: post #129
FabCH wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. Tighter integration than UK, not as…

> and legislative integration Does Canada's agricultural output follow EU's (quite strict) norms? Not sure if this falls under "legislative integration" but I'd say that it would be quite important to have settled. The same goes when it comes to Canada's work-related laws.

"Single market (but food treated specially)" wouldn't be unprecedented; Switzerland was basically like this for a long time.

Working Time Directive may be more of a sticking point, though Canada doesn't seem _that_ far away from aligned with it anyway (big difference would be on paid time off, where Canada's way under the minimum).

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#728

Post by nutjob2 »

fidotron wrote: post #635
theplumber wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is was about immigration. I don’t understand why people are still in denial about this. I am pretty sure it would have happened anyway regardless of what economic concessions UK would have got. It’s worth to note that the immigration is still an issue in the UK and the EU and I think more EU members will leave because of this.

Exactly. And, let's face it, democracy. Either the people in the UK wanted freedom of movement or they didn't, and they voted on that basis. People don't exactly feel they agreed to the Boriswave either, and now when I am back visiting the UK it's noticeably the most racist it's ever been, by a very significant distance. I'm in Canada now and Canada has the same dynamics going on.

> Exactly. And, let's face it, democracy. Either the people in the UK wanted freedom of movement or they didn't, and they voted on that basis.

It was neither. They wanted freedom of movement that was only one way. In fact they didn't know what they wanted because they were sold a bill of goods when it came to Brexit.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#729

Post by bryanlarsen »

rsynnott wrote: post #721
whisperenjoyer wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ask Ukraine The whole political course of Ukraine in the last ~20 years is mostly about teaming up with EU and NATO, isn't it?

... No. Not until this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

Yanukovych was elected in 2010 promising "economic modernisation, greater economic ties with the EU, and military non-alignment." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych). His backsliding on those promises is what caused the Revolution of Dignity. I think the OP's statement is roughly accurate.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#730

Post by triceratops »

dosisking wrote: post #25
noir_lord wrote: post #2

Good, if the middle power democracies don't align/work together they are going to get torn apart in the struggle between the US and China.

There is no struggle, China has already won.

Imagine if China said that about the US in 1950.
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