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EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#491

Post by Alles »

ololobus wrote: post #331

I have no idea how we do it, but I think we should somehow ban the expansion of all the existing unions (EU, CIS, NATO, whatever else we got). The overall worldwide tension is pretty high, but now - US goes after South America and Greenland - EU goes after Canada and Georgia (country), which is just ridiculous in terms of geography - Russia invades Ukraine and goes after Eastern Europe and Middle-East to some extent…

You dont really see a difference between US wanting to take over SA and Greenland militarily and Canada and Georgia wanting closer ties to the EU voluntarily?

You sound like Puting fan boys arguing about NATO expansion, NATO does not expand. countries voluntarily ask to join them, because the alternative is being destroyed

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#492

Post by bryanlarsen »

bko wrote: post #435
neom wrote: post #75

No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)

I was surprised to learn that Canada doesn't even have free trade across their own provenances. A big benefit of the United States is that it's essentially a very large free trade zone across 50 states. If Canada wanted to facilitate trade, I would imagine they would figure it out internally. So my guess is that this is just giving up some political autonomy for some unknown reason, maybe to stick it to the US?

The biggest trade barriers between Canadian provinces are labor licensing laws. The biggest trade barriers between American states are labor licensing laws.

The second biggest trade barriers between Canada provinces are liquor regulations. The second biggest trade barriers between American states are likely car emission laws.

Fairly comparable, IMO.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#493

Post by pebbly_bread »

bko wrote: post #435
neom wrote: post #75

No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)

I was surprised to learn that Canada doesn't even have free trade across their own provenances. A big benefit of the United States is that it's essentially a very large free trade zone across 50 states. If Canada wanted to facilitate trade, I would imagine they would figure it out internally. So my guess is that this is just giving up some political autonomy for some unknown reason, maybe to stick it to the US?

The US also doesn't have free trade following the same criteria, labeling requirements differ by state, licensing regimes are different, the same kind of challenges that exist in Canada

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#494

Post by jtwaleson »

At one point, 20 years back, I was joking that The Netherlands should quit the EU and join the USA as the 51st state. Lot less appealing in the current political climate, but for technology it'd be great. My point was that the constitution of the US is based on ideas, and the country could be open to any territory, independent of location, whereas all of Europe's countries are based on more on historical artifacts.

Funny that the opposite approach is now considered with Canada. I can see it though.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#495

Post by gizajob »

foldr wrote: post #483
gizajob wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of made a point like this in the other thread - during Brexit it was a very hard No from the EU that they couldn’t negotiate on key points such as freedom of movement, and countries are either IN and have everything the EU comes with, or they’re out. Now, it seems, that Canada is being offered a favourable half-in arrangement simply because they’ve never before been involved. Seems pretty bizarre and arbitrary…

This potential deal for Canada comes with compromises which would obviously be unacceptable to the UK (e.g. no full voting rights).

Likely as unacceptable to Canadians.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#496

Post by johannes1234321 »

fidotron wrote: post #355
Sharlin wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK already enjoyed a large amount of unique concessions as a full member. The rest of the EU was right not to give in. Also, game theoretically it's of course more important to not make leaving (or threatening to leave) the union seem too lucrative. No such problem in negotiating tighter integration with nonmembers (and in retrospect, many of the old WP countries should've joined as something like associate membe…

This is the other part: if associate membership is a thing then won't half of the EU start thinking that's their future?

There is always the debate around "Europe of two speeds" - where there is a deeply integrated core of nations, maybe even going towards "United States of Europe" and the others tightly associated, but not fully integrated.

Of course the set of countries and level of integration depends on whom you ask

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#497

Post by rmgiroux »

FabCH wrote: post #106
neom wrote: post #75

No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)

Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. Tighter integration than UK, not as…

Hey, Celine Dion won Eurovision already. We just need to get Switzerland to retroactively let her win stand for Canada :)

If it gets a free trade and freedom of movement system in place, I don't think anyone is going to object in Canada much. Unless they try to open up fisheries, which would get them a bunch of Maritime (and Quebec?) objections...

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#498

Post by bryanlarsen »

cperciva wrote: post #476
bryanlarsen wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just theoretical -- IIUC, if Charles, William and George get hit by the same bus, Charlotte would become Queen of the UK while Louis would become King of Canada. I'm sure that in that scenario Canada would quickly update their primogeniture laws to give Charlotte primacy over her younger brother, but at the moment the primogeniture laws of the two countries are different.

No, all the Commonwealth countries changed their succession laws at the same time precisely to avoid this scenario.

You're right. I thought Canada only agreed to do so, but didn't follow through. I was wrong.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#499

Post by fidotron »

foldr wrote: post #483
gizajob wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of made a point like this in the other thread - during Brexit it was a very hard No from the EU that they couldn’t negotiate on key points such as freedom of movement, and countries are either IN and have everything the EU comes with, or they’re out. Now, it seems, that Canada is being offered a favourable half-in arrangement simply because they’ve never before been involved. Seems pretty bizarre and arbitrary…

This potential deal for Canada comes with compromises which would obviously be unacceptable to the UK (e.g. no full voting rights).

Does anyone actually know publicly what is and isn't the deal for associate membership?

At least here (in Canada) I'm not seeing any concrete details.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#500

Post by rsynnott »

neom wrote: post #75

No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)

Easier trade, past a certain point, basically requires regulatory alignment.
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