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EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

bbc.com

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#481

Post by throwaway283737 »

This is the same EU who once reduced the Canadian trade minister to (literal) tears, and made her denounce the (accurate) fact that, and I quote, "Europe is not capable of signing a trade deal". Notably, the EU has never ratified the Canada FTA and everyone's just sort of pretending it did for convenience's sake.

Nice symbolism, but this is merely being used as leverage in Canada's negotiation with the US. "See, we have other options!"

Worth adding that Europe is far more protectionist than the US, so this is economically farcical. Symbolism trumping reality. Sort of like when celebrities were saying they'd move from the US to Europe in the aftermath of the Dobbs ruling... only to find out abortion law is far, far more restrictive in almost all of Europe than California or New York.

Meanwhile the EU itself is about two years away from being run by the AfD + Le Pen freak show.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#482

Post by momocowcow »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #276
neom wrote: post #75

No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)

CETA (free trade) already exists with the EU. What is happening here is mostly symbolism and diplomacy. And maybe it will lead to the last hold out EU member states fully ratifying CETA (French farmers famously difficult). Many people (including Carney himself) are presenting this as a fundamental and recent pivot. But the opening moves of this happened a long time ago. CETA was negotiated by Chrystia Freeland and th…

It was initially an effort from the conservatives, not the liberals.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#483

Post by foldr »

gizajob wrote: post #426
fidotron wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally what happened. Cameron was trying to reduce the scope of EU integration with the UK (esp freedom of movement), with the threat he didn't want to use of a referendum, the EU said no (as the other commenter explained partly to disincentivize others, but also because they thought he was bluffing and people would never vote to leave), so the referendum was held.

I kind of made a point like this in the other thread - during Brexit it was a very hard No from the EU that they couldn’t negotiate on key points such as freedom of movement, and countries are either IN and have everything the EU comes with, or they’re out. Now, it seems, that Canada is being offered a favourable half-in arrangement simply because they’ve never before been involved. Seems pretty bizarre and arbitrary…

This potential deal for Canada comes with compromises which would obviously be unacceptable to the UK (e.g. no full voting rights).

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#484

Post by debugnik »

gpvos wrote: post #304
xyzsparetimexyz wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're very clearly aligned

Not really with the US anymore. Anyway, I think you missed this reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement

Does it really count as non-aligned if the observer states are very much aligned?

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#485

Post by softwaredoug »

mitxela wrote: post #438
softwaredoug wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but it’s way too difficult to do business in the EU. Not because I think regulations are bad. But regulations need to be well designed with clears lines on what the Federal / State are allowed to do.

You can't deal with 27 different groups of people without dealing with 27 different groups of people or forcibly unifying them to become 1 group. I'm sure you agree the latter is bad.

That’s obviously reductive. They don’t have to be forced. They could mutually agree to unify more strongly

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#486

Post by Waterluvian »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #133
noir_lord wrote: post #2

Good, if the middle power democracies don't align/work together they are going to get torn apart in the struggle between the US and China.

Errrrr...... this has nothing to do with the struggle between USA and China. It is 100% about Trump.

We don’t do trade with Trump. We don’t get attacked by Trump.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#489

Post by b112 »

petilon wrote: post #454
noir_lord wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is a symptom not the disease, when he's gone the people who supported him and voted for him still exist and another Trump-like figure is almost inevitable given they've basically ploughed and planted that field to grow the next one and who's to say NeoTrump isn't going to be smarter . The other democracies can no longer count on the US as a stable ally the way we have in the past (whether that trust was misplac…

When Hitler was removed did another Hitler variant take control of Germany? No, Germany recovered from that dark period. The same will happen in the US. We will recover from this dark period. The comparison to Hitler is not baseless, btw. His own vice president once called Trump America's Hitler.

If you mean after facing bitter defeat, being broken into two nations, being controlled directly by foreign powers for years (and on one side decades), paying reparations, its upper political class and collaborators seized, jailed, trialed, and the free side being afraid of annexation by Russia, having nazism and any artifacts outlawed, then yes.

Yes, after all and more, no future Hitler has yet emerged.

Unless you see these things happening soon, then not really a good comparison.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#490

Post by b3lvedere »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #326
FabCH wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. Tighter integration than UK, not as…

It has to be like Norway/Switzerland/Iceland or more to get any free movements of goods and services. Level of access goes hand in hand with integration in term of regulation, etc. " Associate member " actually sounds like TIGHTER integration than Norway/Switzerland/Iceland, which are not members at all. Switzerland is not even in the EEA. It is a very bad term, actually as Canada cannot be an EU member (it isn't in…

“Canada cannot be an EU member (it isn't in Europe)”

I think the construct of geographical location should not be that big of an issue in these times. Plenty of EU countries have overseas properties.

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