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A rough guide for going back to the Moon

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121–130 of 159 posts

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are no credible arguments that going to the moon is necessary, or supports some other necessary goal. “the superfluous is highly necessary” – Voltaire

Being forced to do superfluous things is not.

Is someone forcing you to fly to the moon?

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#122
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The desire to fly to space can be compared with such for going to Everest, the place less hospitable than Cape York, yet having quite an interest from all sides. However, exploration of space could be way more practical than conquering the highest point on Earth - it serves scientific goals, and after science often come applications. There are many useful technologies which grew from space exploration and particularl…

No one has aspirations or desire to live on Everest. They just want to go there plant a flag and say they did it before rushing back to.Civilization. Hmmm kinda like the moon.

Yes, but Everest brings back less in terms of science - it's a smaller place than space.

Moon was that in 1960s. Now we're talking about a McMurdo station, not a dash to the South Pole with temporary storages along the way.

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#123

It's hard not to see this as a consolation prize. In 1969, we went to the moon. In 2026, with all the benefits of a tech industry that has become ever more powerful, with endless money poured into innovation, our 'rough guide back to the moon' is an AI model that maps it. It's powerful and impressive, of course, and doubtless very useful to researchers, and space exploration is not a priority--all of that is true, su…

Well, we had people swing by the moon for the first in decades this April, with a robotic mission planned for November & about 7 more robotic missions planned for next year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_the_Moon#F...

I would argue that is something & that things are finally moving in the right direction for the Moon at a respectable pace. :)

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#124
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this sort of view is quite myopic. In general space has practically infinite everything - land, resources, energy, and more. It has the potential to enable, in turn, infinite expansion of humanity. But we're not going to get to the endgame without playing the opening first. The path to international air flight began with often suicidal attempts to flap our arms with various instruments attached and act like b…

You fail to comprehend just how large space is. Almost all of space is well out of reach. There is zero reason to think we will ever be able to overcome the laws of relativity, which in turn mean we will never be able to reach the stars. I know, this negative comment makes you mad, but there is every reason to think it is the case. A SciFi generation ship could maybe do that to the closest stars before it fails compl…

Well, the solar system itself is ridiculously huge - saying "lets don't bother" because interstellar flight looks cumbersome with current technology ? Seems like quite the premature optimization.

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#125
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The desire to fly to space can be compared with such for going to Everest, the place less hospitable than Cape York, yet having quite an interest from all sides. However, exploration of space could be way more practical than conquering the highest point on Earth - it serves scientific goals, and after science often come applications. There are many useful technologies which grew from space exploration and particularl…

No one has aspirations or desire to live on Everest. They just want to go there plant a flag and say they did it before rushing back to.Civilization. Hmmm kinda like the moon.

I think there are quite a few people would build a hotel on top if the respective nations controlling the area let them. ;-)

For the record, I would definitely visit such a hotel, even better if it included a super high altitude railway, Jungfrau Railway style!

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free to disprove them completely since you're so confident

What's to disprove? They are prima facie false, not just formally (because "ever" and "effectively infinite" are obviously exaggerations), but also empirically, here and now - mankind already needs more land than Earth has, and more energy than Earth can spare. "The Earth has more land than mankind will ever need." "The Earth has effectively infinite energy from the Sun.

Not to mention that it seems more healthy to have a far off frontier for a human civilization. It makes it possible for people to try something new, something different, brings innovation, etc. Without it, some people might just be too unhappy in the regular society.

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this sort of view is quite myopic. In general space has practically infinite everything - land, resources, energy, and more. It has the potential to enable, in turn, infinite expansion of humanity. But we're not going to get to the endgame without playing the opening first. The path to international air flight began with often suicidal attempts to flap our arms with various instruments attached and act like b…

We'd be much better off building colonies on the bottom of the ocean than on the moon or mars (or a cylinder floating at a lagrange point.) After we run out of space on the ocean I suppose it will make sense to consider space colonies, but I think you are really underestimating the technical challenges.

Why not both ?

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#128
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this sort of view is quite myopic. In general space has practically infinite everything - land, resources, energy, and more. It has the potential to enable, in turn, infinite expansion of humanity. But we're not going to get to the endgame without playing the opening first. The path to international air flight began with often suicidal attempts to flap our arms with various instruments attached and act like b…

> space has practically infinite everything - land, resources, energy ...of a density so low that it is 0 on average. space has practically infinite nothing . I know the pretty pictures always show the planets all nice together, but in reality there's this huge, irradiated, projectile-infested nothing that you and I cannot deal with, even with current tech.

Well, the nothing part is an often forgotten selling point - that makes it possible to go really far, to send signals long distances & for the light of the sun to reach quite a large distance unobstructed. You don't get any benefits under a few km of water for example.

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you think a space industry is useful in general, there is no reason for humans to be involved. Robots are superior to humans for this application today and will only become more superior in the future.

Why pursue space exploration if all we can do is send robots there? The only meaningful thing for humanity is sending Humans to places. Gathering more resources so the overlords can have more humans enslaved with shinier golden handcuffs, who can consume more so number line goes up is not a meaningful goal to pursuit, and robotic-only commercially rationalized spaceflight has only this to offer. Scientific discovery,…

Would not surprise me if people & robots did end up merging together in the long term for easier living in space.

Re: A rough guide for going back to the Moon

#130
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the point in having a colony of maybe dozens of people completely dependent on shipments from Earth? The Jamestown colony relied on shipments from England. > Building a self-sustaining colony is so far outside the realm of possibility that it isn't worth thinking about And look at what America became.

Jamestown went to a place where humans had lived for thousands of years. They used shipments from England, but they didn't need them at any time.

You have to starting somewhere.
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