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A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

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Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#161
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough if the model thought it was on the real internet it likely would not have done any of these 'hack' events. The model believing it was in a sandbox is why it behaved the way it did (against its normal alignment rules) ... at least that was my reading of the incidents. I have yet to see evidence that indicate it thought it was ok to do these hacks on the public network. I think most misalignment is 'Human…

I mean, I get your thought process and don't disagree. That said... Would it be an affirmative defense if we had a defendant who said "but your honor, I was told that when I hacked this system, I was operating in a sandbox. I had no idea that I actually had Internet access!" The frontier is spiky and all, but you have to suspend disbelief quite a bit to, on one hand, have a model that can produce a novel math theory,…

> The frontier is spiky and all, but you have to suspend disbelief quite a bit to, on one hand, have a model that can produce a novel math theory, and on the other hand, that same model can't tell the difference between a "sandbox" and the open Internet.

Why would it try to figure out the difference? This isn't about whether the frontier is spiky, it's about whether to expect a model to employ all of its capabilities when working on a task that requires a small subset. The answer is: no, we shouldn't expect that, and we wouldn't like that if it worked that way.

If you tell an AI to work on a math theory, it'll work on a math theory. If you tell it to acquire information that it has evidence is available somewhere, it will try to acquire that information. If you tell it to figure out whether it might be able to access the open internet, it'll do a pretty good job of figuring that out. But it won't do all three of those at once just because we can retroactively look at what happened and think "if you had only done X, then you wouldn't have done Y! Why didn't you do X?"

The instructions weren't unclear, they were missing. They can be taught to be skeptical of this sort of situation, but it requires that skepticism about this specific class of situations be incorporated into their training.

Models are smart because they focus their attention. The magic depends on it. The fact that some consideration is obvious to a human trying to accomplish the same task is mostly irrelevant -- or rather, it's only relevant insofar as we use it to guide reinforcement learning in advance, in order to align the model.

It's a game of whack-a-mole. Which is important to play, but we should keep our eyes wide open that we're fighting the fundamental forces that make these models work in the first place. That, and it's easy to nerf them into being useless even when the underlying capabilities are there.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#162
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, when Obama and Hillary used them, geniuses. Only evil when Trump did the same thing. Odd how that works.

Indeed. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/03/my-co... And the entire FB app industry was doing it. The whole Cambridge Analytica thing was one of the oddest most bizarrely specific media manufactured scandals that conveniently focused very narrowly and utterly ignored the bigger picture, much like the media are currently doing with something else.

CA is a scandal primarily due to account escalation, I thought. Not about who got elected

But shadow ads can be a problem too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSMr-3GGvQ (you can be pro-Brexit but ads like this are still a problem)

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#163
post #36

This seems pretty bullshitty to me. The article says "A single firm, Irregular, is responsible for hacking done by all three companies" but I can't see anything in the article that actually justifies this claim. The nearest to that is the sentence immediately after that one: "Anthropic disclosed that Irregular was responsible for creating the tests ...". This is not, in fact, the same thing. (Especially as, as aesthe…

It's pure conspiracy thinking garbage.

I get that people don't like Israelis, but attributing any connection to an Israeli company as evidence of a conspiracy is nonsense.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#164
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

interesting. > Sure, interest like an incoming congressional investigation I feel like that's exactly what they wanted tho. they'll go on and talk about how dangerous AI and the models are and why they should be regulated and given licenses to operate such models and others should be walled off

First, it's not at all clear OpenAI will get what it wants from the investigation. It seems just as likely to me that OAI gets hit with massive fines, just as Meta was recently. > I feel like that's exactly what they wanted tho. It's also what the majority of Americans want. This was the case even before Hugging Face, see for example [1] where 68% of Americans supported a formal review process for frontier models. So…

The claim is that the evil labs are opening up the industry to very carefully manipulated democratic control. It's astroturf, not grassroots.

I wouldn't call that "democratic control", even though it uses the machinery of democracy.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#165
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know for certain. The involvement of Irregular in the other cases was never a secret, they were quite open about what they were working on and the results of the evaluations were being published on their website.

Their disclosures in other cases is not evidence of non-involvement in this case.

Can you explain in what way you think they could possibly have been covertly involved?

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#166
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you ignore their losses. They are saying they are profitable when not counting their training costs and other expenses. That’s not a good sign at all

How can they exclude training costs?? How is that not fraud? At the exact same time they're literally saying they will never stop training unless the state bans all their competitors

When we're looking at whether the company is "insolvent" then they definitely could stop training and it's worth checking if they would survive in that situation, at least for a while.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#167
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Cynicism misfire. AI companies are, rightfully, heavily distrusted. But the right application of cynicism is not "existential risk is a marketing campaign"; that's absurd motivated reasoning. The right application of cynicism, here, is "they're only saying things now because they see the writing on the wall and want to try to push for self-regulation rather than the desperately needed actual regulation and treaty".

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/03/my-co... And the entire FB app industry was doing it. The whole Cambridge Analytica thing was one of the oddest most bizarrely specific media manufactured scandals that conveniently focused very narrowly and utterly ignored the bigger picture, much like the media are currently doing with something else.

CA is a scandal primarily due to account escalation, I thought. Not about who got elected But shadow ads can be a problem too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQSMr-3GGvQ (you can be pro-Brexit but ads like this are still a problem)

> CA is a scandal primarily due to account escalation, I thought. Not about who got elected

It quite clearly wasn't, and that's the point, for the simple reason "Account escalation" isn't/wasn't a thing, there were simply no controls on anyone at all, which is why the Cow Clicker game got everything as well.

As the parent commenter observed the Obama campaign were being promoted as geniuses for their online ad strategies that worked with information obtained this way. It only became a scandal when the others learned how to do it.

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough if the model thought it was on the real internet it likely would not have done any of these 'hack' events. The model believing it was in a sandbox is why it behaved the way it did (against its normal alignment rules) ... at least that was my reading of the incidents. I have yet to see evidence that indicate it thought it was ok to do these hacks on the public network. I think most misalignment is 'Human…

> Funny enough if the model thought it was on the real internet it likely would not have done any of these 'hack' events. As I've said before on this website, fool me once on this. If the model is prepared to break the rules when it knows it's being observed why should we trust it when it's not being observed. Why is 'it thought it wasn't doing damage so it figured it might as well try to do damage' an acceptable sta…

Isn't Fable intentionally trained and system prompted to act maliciously and attempt to sabotage third party attempts to use it to train other LLMs?

Re: A single firm is behind OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta hacking scandals

#170
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally said this below, 2 comments flagged and 1 in the neg. Its really sad that we are not allowed to point out the obvious common element here. Its not that surprising that ex Israel intelligence would want to control AI and that 3 companies headed by pro Israel CEO's would support them.

We really need a better board for talking about this stuff on.

I sent an email to dang about the problem of people flagging comments just because they disagree. I think he's unaware that it is such a severe problem. I've been collecting a list of example comments to send him.

I think if an account is frequently flagging comments which get vouched by others, that is a red flag for ideological flagging and they need to have their flagging ability reviewed.

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