Funny how the authors are asserting that "doing the right task > data > compute > algorithms" while simultaneously releasing AI model for calibrated decision making, which if they work, would mean that "compute > doing the right task"
Introducing System One Models and Jev
171–180 of 512 posts
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#172This, combined with contracts, could make a lot of things so much fun now!
For those who don't know (which is probably everyone but me), I ported the design-by-contract pattern in Python and combined it with LLMs. This was early 2025. I originally wrote about it here: https://leoveanu.com/2025-03-01-dbc/ . Contracts are a core feature of SymbolicAI ever since. The community seems to have loved it too (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44399234).
I think I'm starting to glimpse the implications and it's gonna change agentic workloads if it holds up to scrutiny. It's too early for me to tell anything other than jot down some rough thoughts.
In short, you get blazingly fast semantic branching you can use in control flows. For contracts, I can now directly take the data model that you have to design and convert it into Jev's expected format. Or I can use Jev for semantic branching in postconditions.
If my understanding is correct, that should be doable, but I need to think more about it. It could be that with Jev I can finally “compile contracts” and better chain them into workflows, which is something I always wanted but didn't know how to do properly.
Eager to test. On the waiting list.
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think it’s misleading if you compare on the use cases they suggested. It’s faster and cheaper (no idea if higher quality), so it’s immediately interesting for certain things. And if you buy their RLCD claims, this might be even better than huge models that know a bunch of irrelevant things.
What was misleading was the original title: "Jev: New frontier model 40-400x cheaper and 20-200x faster" I'm not the gatekeeper of who gets to call themselves a frontier model, but I don't think most people would count Jev in that group. It sounds false. If their specific claims hold up, then it would make more sense to say something like: "Advanced the speed/cost frontier for structured decisions"
How is this not a frontier model? It's bleeding edge in its own niche. It's not a frontier LLM; however, applicable to many of the things people use LLMs for.
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#174This will be insane for tool usage, and probably where the major economics for day-to-day usage will be.
The goal is going to be to use llms to distill operations down to some dsl, and pass it into something like Jev.
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#175This makes me think of Expressions of Change [1], a project that aimed to make updates to a program a first-class primitive in a programming language. A model like this can't output code directly, but perhaps it would be well suited to select from the small set of discrete operations on code envisioned by the EoC author?
[1]: www.expressionsofchange.org
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#176Hasn't there been a lot talk about Astra's opaque reasoning capabilities (being able to think through complex questions without using a chain of thought)?
Given that, can't you just replicate Jev by telling Astra "here is the question, you must make a multiple choice decision / output a score between 1-10, please answer directly in a single word, no reasoning allowed"?
(Edit: Ok, Jev is much cheaper in input tokens so these two aren't directly comparable at all)
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think it’s misleading if you compare on the use cases they suggested. It’s faster and cheaper (no idea if higher quality), so it’s immediately interesting for certain things. And if you buy their RLCD claims, this might be even better than huge models that know a bunch of irrelevant things.
What was misleading was the original title: "Jev: New frontier model 40-400x cheaper and 20-200x faster" I'm not the gatekeeper of who gets to call themselves a frontier model, but I don't think most people would count Jev in that group. It sounds false. If their specific claims hold up, then it would make more sense to say something like: "Advanced the speed/cost frontier for structured decisions"
Large language models are not the only type of model.
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#178First, congrats to the team on launching something genuinely interesting and new. Seems like a more accurate title would be "Jev: Trading general purpose generation for fast typed inference" or something like that. This is interesting, but the speed comparison seems misleading? A generative model that can output code in a Turing-complete language can do anything a computer can do. Jev can only generate structured out…
When they say "can't hallucinate" they mean they produce a confidence value for every result, so you could see for example it has 0.1 confidence, and you can disregard the result - that'd be different from hallucinating where it believes it's correct
Yeah but what stops it from producing confidently incorrect outputs...
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#179This has the potential to be huge for computer use.
OpenAI has been teasing how fast computer use is with their models running on Cerebras chips but the difference here is a burning hole in your pocket.
Re: Introducing System One Models and Jev
#180[dead]