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Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

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Re: Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

#81

Post by pllbnk »

in_absentia wrote: post #47

Many geeks are the embodiment of the "don't trust the government" / "don't trust corporations" counterculture, but when equity grants entered the equation, we architected much of the modern techno-surveillance state. Flock is an YC company. Probably a quarter of the people who frequent this site work at Meta or Google. We're always eager to say how much we dislike it, but there's so little self-reflection in our comm…

A regular person who happened to be smart (and possibly hardworking) has to choose between $100k regular software engineering job at a company with low social impact or $400k at a cream-of-the-crop company, which will further add on the specialist's value by the virtue of having this company's name on their CV. This is a life-changing amount of money which compounds over the years, where a person can genuinely start thinking about early retirement, especially if they don't like the corporate culture.

Why should society allow individuals have to make such difficult choices between being principled or rich? It's the government's job to control. And I don't mean salary control, but to understand why there are such differences and work to mitigate them.

Re: Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

#82

Post by leonidasrup »

in_absentia wrote: post #47

Many geeks are the embodiment of the "don't trust the government" / "don't trust corporations" counterculture, but when equity grants entered the equation, we architected much of the modern techno-surveillance state. Flock is an YC company. Probably a quarter of the people who frequent this site work at Meta or Google. We're always eager to say how much we dislike it, but there's so little self-reflection in our comm…

Tech companies have been monetizing our privacy for a long time.

Google's ex-CEO Eric Schmidt in 2009:

"If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. If you really need that kind of privacy, the reality is that search engines—including Google—do retain this information for some time and it's important, for example, that we are all subject in the United States to the Patriot Act and it is possible that all that information could be made available to the authorities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_concerns_with_Google

Re: Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

#83

Post by in_absentia »

pllbnk wrote: post #81
in_absentia wrote: post #47

Many geeks are the embodiment of the "don't trust the government" / "don't trust corporations" counterculture, but when equity grants entered the equation, we architected much of the modern techno-surveillance state. Flock is an YC company. Probably a quarter of the people who frequent this site work at Meta or Google. We're always eager to say how much we dislike it, but there's so little self-reflection in our comm…

A regular person who happened to be smart (and possibly hardworking) has to choose between $100k regular software engineering job at a company with low social impact or $400k at a cream-of-the-crop company, which will further add on the specialist's value by the virtue of having this company's name on their CV. This is a life-changing amount of money which compounds over the years, where a person can genuinely start…

Having principles is about making choices that are difficult, not about making choices that are easy. "I didn't really want to build a panopticon, why didn't the government stop me" is not a particularly sympathetic position to take (even if true).

Re: Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

#85

Post by leonidasrup »

cestith wrote: post #77
benzingtech wrote: post #27

Surveillance isnt a problem until people use it for personal gain

The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution would seem to disagree.

Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution protects only U.S. citizens inside U.S.

NSA is allowed to collect any information about non-U.S. citizens outside U.S. and there are some limitations to collection of information about U.S. citizens outside U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveilla...

Re: Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

#86

Post by askonomm »

kypro wrote: post #55
bradgessler wrote: post #18

The solution is legal and political, not technical.

As a Brit I hope Americans understand just how amazing the first amendment is. Here in the UK (and Europe) surveillance can be used to criminalise us for things we say in private. At least in the US this kind of thing is much harder for the government to do.

I don't know about UK, but everything in the U.S constitution's first amendment is most definitely also in Estonia. I would pretty confidently say also most of EU, probably. They are pretty basic things.

Re: Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

#87

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

in_absentia wrote: post #83
pllbnk wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A regular person who happened to be smart (and possibly hardworking) has to choose between $100k regular software engineering job at a company with low social impact or $400k at a cream-of-the-crop company, which will further add on the specialist's value by the virtue of having this company's name on their CV. This is a life-changing amount of money which compounds over the years, where a person can genuinely start…

Having principles is about making choices that are difficult, not about making choices that are easy. "I didn't really want to build a panopticon, why didn't the government stop me" is not a particularly sympathetic position to take (even if true).

I think you are simplifying it a tad bit. Having principles means having principles. On principle, I don't allow some types of devices in my household. That decision is not difficult, but it is simple. The decision parent describes is not difficult in the sense an individual may easily arrive of what is 'right', but it is absolutely not simple to disentangle oneself.. especially once you do have some year history to back you. Parent was pointing to that. Your dismissal is easy, but it simply shows you never had to choose.

Re: Dystopian Surveillance Is Becoming a Reality

#88

Post by cestith »

leonidasrup wrote: post #85
cestith wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution would seem to disagree.

Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution protects only U.S. citizens inside U.S. NSA is allowed to collect any information about non-U.S. citizens outside U.S. and there are some limitations to collection of information about U.S. citizens outside U.S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveilla...

I wasn't replying to a question of jurisdiction. It was a statement that surveillance is fine until there's personal gain involved. That is not consistent with the text or intent of the amendment. Other countries also have rights protected against unreasonable searches and seizures. Some even explicitly protect privacy.

The US Constitution applies to people in the US, by the way, not just citizens.

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