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Most people prefer traditional architecture

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Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#141

Post by asdff »

mmooss wrote: post #112
boh wrote: post #61

Modernism is the act of using cheaper resources and more standardized/cheaper methods of production. The aesthetic is more of a side-effect of those limits. Ugliness has become a cultural norm in order to suit the modern economy. It may come as a surprise but it required years of cultural development and education for most people to accept the work of Dieter Rams as some aesthetic pinnacle rather than soulless mass p…

> Ugliness has become a cultural norm I love modern architecture (and art); I find many older forms to be garish, focused on pointless decoration and on wealth display, rather than on the beauty of function and form. The imagination of [some] modern architecture, starting from those fundamentals, is stunning. You don't like it, which is just as valid, but trying to turn your preference into a universal truth for huma…

I think a lot of the reflexive distaste for the modern would be softened if we were still able to build in The Old Way, whatever that might be. People like these older brick mid rise buildings with the bit of trimming decoration. But, they just don't get built. Sometimes in NYC or chicago someplace you might see a more recent build where they tried to get those old elements down. They used brick and made it square and tried to do a little decoration, but something is missing. They didn't do the thing where they use nicer brick on the street facing side of the structure, or they didn't do the actual cement formed decorative trim pieces throughout. All the brick is laid the same instead of having some lines on the top edge turned out in a decorative way for example. The whole thing feels severely value engineered even if on paper it's actually a quality building with modern amenities and comforts.

Instead it just feels like some knowledge was lost to time and we lost the plot along the way, because there is a refusal or inability to just do what used to be done all the time in the past. Yes building codes are different, but stuff like trim or brick work or generally curb appeal shouldn't affect that. No one is asking for no sprinkler system or no hvac, just a better looking building from the outside. Many of those old buildings do get gutted and end up modern inside but maintain the old facade. People want more of that facade I think without it being a diminishing resource.

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#142

Post by rbanffy »

Zigurd wrote: post #39
beachy wrote: post #3

> Respondents preferred the traditional design by 74 percent to 26 percent. There was almost no variation by social class, and only modest variation by political party. Older people were, as in most studies, more traditional than younger people, but even 18–24s still preferred the traditional design by 61 to 39 percent. I might be missing something but isn't this all a bit of a no-brainer? In the old days, buildings…

The worst architecture is a combination of cost optimization and aiming for looking traditional-ish. That's a recipe for future blight.

Design, like so many disciplines, can't serve two masters.

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#143

Post by pessimizer »

ragall wrote: post #89
boh wrote: post #61

Modernism is the act of using cheaper resources and more standardized/cheaper methods of production. The aesthetic is more of a side-effect of those limits. Ugliness has become a cultural norm in order to suit the modern economy. It may come as a surprise but it required years of cultural development and education for most people to accept the work of Dieter Rams as some aesthetic pinnacle rather than soulless mass p…

> Modernism is the act of using cheaper resources and more standardized/cheaper methods of production. That's how they sold it, but it's not true. By the end of the 19th century, all the building ornamentation that you can still see in European capitals, had been stadardized and was mass-produced, while the construction techniques using brick and mortar had been further refined, yielding building designs that were ch…

[flagged]

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#144

Post by rbanffy »

bad_username wrote: post #4
beachy wrote: post #3

> Respondents preferred the traditional design by 74 percent to 26 percent. There was almost no variation by social class, and only modest variation by political party. Older people were, as in most studies, more traditional than younger people, but even 18–24s still preferred the traditional design by 61 to 39 percent. I might be missing something but isn't this all a bit of a no-brainer? In the old days, buildings…

> Why would someone invest in an elaborate and expensive design when they could simply throw up a slab of brutalist concrete and punch some windows into it? But why do the students of architecture prefer brutalism? I don't believe they factor the financials in when they choose which picture they like better.

> But why do the students of architecture prefer brutalism?

Because they study architecture. The article is profoundly anti-intellectual. This discourse, that colleges indoctrinate people and, thus, cause them to disagree with some form of "truth" that the uneducated masses know.

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#145

Post by rbanffy »

dxdm wrote: post #9
bad_username wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would someone invest in an elaborate and expensive design when they could simply throw up a slab of brutalist concrete and punch some windows into it? But why do the students of architecture prefer brutalism? I don't believe they factor the financials in when they choose which picture they like better.

Why, indeed.

We really need to understand why people who study a subject and dedicate their lives to studying and perfecting their understanding would show a clear preference for something...

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#146

Post by IshKebab »

perilunar wrote: post #16

There's more to architecture than just the façade, which is what people are rating when they are just looking at photos of the exterior. The interiors, structure, and services, etc. of modern building are often far superior to older ones, and i suspect many 'ordinary' people would agree.

Right but that's not because modern architectural style has made the interiors better. It's mainly technological improvements that allow larger windows, bigger space, better insulation, etc.

You can totally have a traditional style building with a modern interior without a hint of brutalism or concrete.

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#147

Post by cavemandaveman »

Zigurd wrote: post #114
cavemandaveman wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your comments and the way you describe yourself, you strike me as the stereotype of the sort of person you'd find at a DSA rally. Over-schooled (as opposed to over-educated), arrogant, and finding grievance in everything. The author writes an article observing that people find more beauty in traditional architecture and you immediately slander him as a racist white guy who wants to go back to 1950s segregation?…

You don't have to return to the 1950s to find racism and segregation in present day America. There's a lot of work yet to do. Get on it or get out of the way.

Sure, but it's a massive leap to go from "there's still some racism and segregation in America" to "traditional architecture perpetuates racism." The latter sounds like something from 2020 that's now being disavowed as "woke 1.0."

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#148

Post by kelseyfrog »

rbanffy wrote: post #118
kelseyfrog wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have to convince the design community that form can follow things other than function. Until form is no longer synonymous with function, design will eschew ornamentation.

When form doesn't follow function, usability suffers.

Look at the buildings. We're already suffering.

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#149

Post by rbanffy »

IslandRebel wrote: post #10
7bit wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the commenter you're replying to has no idea what brutalism is, and is confusing a ugly concrete block with holes in it with brutalism.

I've seen plenty of examples of Brutalism in architecture (in the UK) first hand and to most people it looks like ugly concrete blocks with hole in it.

Sometimes being "ugly" is the point. You want to bring out emotions - the building can be grandiose, imposing, surprising, but, if you look closely, it's a carefully crafted work of art that's also highly functional.

One great example from the city where I grew up: https://hicarquitectura.com/2024/09/lina-bo-bardi-sesc-pompe...

Re: Most people prefer traditional architecture

#150

Post by rbanffy »

rdwrrr wrote: post #7
beachy wrote: post #3

> Respondents preferred the traditional design by 74 percent to 26 percent. There was almost no variation by social class, and only modest variation by political party. Older people were, as in most studies, more traditional than younger people, but even 18–24s still preferred the traditional design by 61 to 39 percent. I might be missing something but isn't this all a bit of a no-brainer? In the old days, buildings…

Perhaps counter intuitive but beauty standards are not simply just sentiment.

And also change a lot over time.
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