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Let's make quality the norm again

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Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#221

Post by Telaneo »

throwup238 wrote: post #196
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skyrim came out in 2011 and is at this moment, the 55th highest player count on Steam. Just playing top tier single player games over the past twenty years could keep you incredibly busy.

Which Skyrim is that? OG Skyrim (Oldrim), Skyrim Legendary edition, Skyrim Special edition, Skyrim VR, Skyrim Anniversary edition, or the Skyrim anniversary upgrade? Are they even the same base SKUs at this point? I don’t want to pull out my gaming desktop but IIRC it was at least three different entries in the Steam library. I wonder if the stats combine them. At this point I’ve spent so much money on Skyrim titles…

It's Skyrim Special edition that's on that spot. The OG version hasn't been sold in years on Steam and is tracked separately. The VR edition is sold and tracked separately. The Anniversary edition is sold as DLC for the Special edition, and not as a separate game. I think the Legendary edition was sold as a bundle for the OG version after all the DLCs came out. Either way, it too cannot be bought on Steam any more.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#222

Post by criddell »

tonymet wrote: post #161

Ikea compressed wood dresser = $125. Proper oak dresser = $5000 . What consumer is capable and willing to make that trade off. Much of that cost is because we nuked the American timber industry ? Appealing to the fabricators (or even consumers) who are 4-8 degrees downstream of this policy will get you nowhere.

There might not be any trade-off in your example. You're assuming that a solid wood piece of furniture is superior to the flatpack alternative and you can't really say that without knowing what the consumer needs.

I have a little Ikea Lack table that holds my printer. I paid less than $10 for the table and I don't even think it's wood (cardboard maybe?). It's getting close to 20 years old and is in great shape.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#223

Post by mschuster91 »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #125
mschuster91 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, if you religiously maintain the car, it was easy even back then. The dirty secret is keeping rust out of the car - in the winter, regularly wash it to avoid salt ingress, and generally store it in a dry (both physical and humidity) garage, to routinely change engine and transmission fluids and to only run good quality fuel. Oh, and don't subject your car to constant short start-stop cycles (i.e. drives of less…

> Oh, and don't subject your car to constant short start-stop cycles (i.e. drives of less than half an hour) So if my commute is only 20 minutes I shouldn’t own a car? :)

At the very least, halve all service intervals, especially for engine and transmission oil. Go for an oil designed for heavy start-stop load, usually on the 5W or even 0W side, but be cautious, it must carry the manufacturer permit as well.

Also add fuel additives designed to clean up injectors every few months on a fresh full tank of the highest quality fuel you can get.

If it's a diesel, regularly go for a highway ride at sustained high speed and load for at least an hour or two to cause the DPF to enter soot burnoff mode.

Depending on that being legal where you live, code out the stop-and-go functionality as well. Yes, it saves fuel especially in typical commuter cars, but it seriously impacts engine life as well.

And for the love of god be proactive in driving if you can. If you know your traffic lights, let go of the brake five seconds before you get green, if you can estimate when your red phase is over. That way your engine can start and have a few seconds to build oil pressure before you command load from it. The way most people go - go off the brakes when they get green and then kick the gas pedal - is extremely damaging.

A final note for commuters: if you must go with an ICE powered commuter vehicle - use a small engine. A 60 HP engine is more than enough, and it will warm up and get to optimal temperature much faster and stay in that temperature range for much longer. A 300 HP engine? That thing is built to endure much, much more load - it won't get properly warmed up even on a longer commute, much less on a short commute.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#224

Post by ryathal »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #189
ryathal wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games are just another example where the pricing is mostly greed. The market is massively larger than it was in the 90s, digital distribution has massively cut the cost of goods sold, new games are sold with tiered pricing, recuring revenue is now a huge part of a games viability. Game sales aren't the primary income anymore, it's all about keeping whales buying in game items, discounts are only offered when th…

That's why the industry is thriving, right? "COGS" for games has absolutely nothing to do with the plastic box on the shelf with a DVD issue. Sony wasted almost the entire PS5 generation chasing GAAS and having almost nothing to show for it.

The industry as a whole is growing, it's way more than just Sony, and way more than just consoles.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#225

Post by Telaneo »

throwitaway222 wrote: post #212
Animats wrote: post #190

Easy solution if you like tariffs: all imported items over $100 must have a 10 year full warranty.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...

[flagged]

You know, it's possible to be of the opinion that tariffs might be good in some cases, but bad in others?

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#226

Post by tonymet »

megaman821 wrote: post #219
tonymet wrote: post #161

Ikea compressed wood dresser = $125. Proper oak dresser = $5000 . What consumer is capable and willing to make that trade off. Much of that cost is because we nuked the American timber industry ? Appealing to the fabricators (or even consumers) who are 4-8 degrees downstream of this policy will get you nowhere.

Was there a time when an oak dresser was much cheaper in inflation adjusted dollars? Furniture that lasts forever is an anti-feature for some. They want to change their furnishings about as often as cheap furniture lasts anyway. I mostly buy quality furniture, but sometimes I don't know what I really want and Ikea and Wayfair are great for that. Cheap enough to donate after I decide what quality piece I really want.

yes.

And you're reversing cause and effect. Do the consumers prefer a disposable lifestyle or is that a cope?

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#227

Post by tonymet »

criddell wrote: post #222
tonymet wrote: post #161

Ikea compressed wood dresser = $125. Proper oak dresser = $5000 . What consumer is capable and willing to make that trade off. Much of that cost is because we nuked the American timber industry ? Appealing to the fabricators (or even consumers) who are 4-8 degrees downstream of this policy will get you nowhere.

There might not be any trade-off in your example. You're assuming that a solid wood piece of furniture is superior to the flatpack alternative and you can't really say that without knowing what the consumer needs. I have a little Ikea Lack table that holds my printer. I paid less than $10 for the table and I don't even think it's wood (cardboard maybe?). It's getting close to 20 years old and is in great shape.

"there's no aesthetic difference between this beautiful portrait and the contemporary pile of trash in the corner"

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#228

Post by criddell »

tonymet wrote: post #227
criddell wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might not be any trade-off in your example. You're assuming that a solid wood piece of furniture is superior to the flatpack alternative and you can't really say that without knowing what the consumer needs. I have a little Ikea Lack table that holds my printer. I paid less than $10 for the table and I don't even think it's wood (cardboard maybe?). It's getting close to 20 years old and is in great shape.

"there's no aesthetic difference between this beautiful portrait and the contemporary pile of trash in the corner"

Not sure who you are quoting...

Of course there's an aesthetic difference.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#229

Post by Dylan16807 »

pphysch wrote: post #204
Animats wrote: post #190

Easy solution if you like tariffs: all imported items over $100 must have a 10 year full warranty.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...

Is it easy? What if an organization avoids liability through shell companies and financial engineering? "The company managing your warranty was acquired by Foobar Inc and their sole building burned down destroying all records. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Well there is the option to make Amazon responsible for what they sell...

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#230

Post by vladms »

myrmidon wrote: post #49

I personally see two effects that are very detrimental here: 1) "Quality brands", where you pay a premium to get high quality/durability products, are economically incentivized to "sell-out" (cash in the brand name by producing as cheaply as possible). This is because customers take some time to catch on, and short-term financials are too often more important than anything else. 2) Increasing trend towards no-name pr…

I see "quality brands" as a potential way to avoid knowing yourself stuff about what you buy. In itself, outsourcing one's expertise about a product might be the root cause of the detrimental effects you mention.

As an example: I was once shopping with someone that had experience in fashion. While I don't remember all the details, with one look/touch the person could tell and explain if something was poor or high quality, while to me it all looked mostly the same. Based on that experience, I now I mostly stick to checking the material, and avoid plastics which seem to show a tendency for low quality across the board.

I do agree that it requires effort to know stuff about things, but when I see people that go like "oh, I need X, will pick the first X that shows up on Amazon", I am less amazed we get crappy quality for lots of products.

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