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Let's make quality the norm again

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Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#201

Post by nradov »

testdelacc1 wrote: post #180
xingped wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is quite common and is usually referred to as "it's expensive to be poor". That said, unfortunately these days it's very difficult to know which brands are still actually quality anymore and which are the ones still coasting on previous good engineering reputation while currently shipping substandard crap to make an extra buck for the bean counters in charge before the ship sinks.

> it’s expensive to be poor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory “The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But…

I don't know why people keep posting that silly quote. Outside of fantasy novels, in the real world the most expensive footwear is often the least durable, and you can get decent boots at Walmart for <$50 on clearance sales.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#202

Post by WalterBright »

jolt42 wrote: post #186
testdelacc1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s expensive to be poor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory “The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But…

It really pisses me off there are used car lots that obviously prey on the poor. I asked for their cash price and they wouldn't give me one, or it was ridiculously priced. They just want for people to pay off a debt and all the interest that goes with it.

A car dealership makes most of their money off of the financing.

> I asked for their cash price and they wouldn't give me one

When I bought a car from a dealer, the dealer told me that what I wanted was impossible. So I walked out and got in my car, and started to back out. The salesman came running out and agreed to my terms.

The trick to making a good deal is a willingness to walk away.

P.S. My accounting teacher used to work at a used car lot. He explained to me that poor people tended to screw themselves by not understanding how financing works. He'd try to explain it to them, and they'd accuse him of trying to screw them, and they'd go for the more expensive option.

I tell this story to people who say that learning math in school is irrelevant.

I also remember a Frontline episode years ago on 401k plans. One company had an identical plan for all employees. The reporters discovered that the higher paid employees had better returns on the 401k plans. Why was it that the lower paid ones did poorly with them? It was they did not understand how to manage investments.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#203

Post by therealdrag0 »

testdelacc1 wrote: post #180
xingped wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is quite common and is usually referred to as "it's expensive to be poor". That said, unfortunately these days it's very difficult to know which brands are still actually quality anymore and which are the ones still coasting on previous good engineering reputation while currently shipping substandard crap to make an extra buck for the bean counters in charge before the ship sinks.

> it’s expensive to be poor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory “The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But…

I always felt this was over stated, but I think it’s become less true over time.

First different people treat their stuff harder than others. I basically never break or wear out anything, and I usually start with the cheapest option.

Second the quality of cheap shit made in Asia has gone up a lot over the last couple decades. And it is very difficult to know how to pay more for more quality.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#204

Post by pphysch »

Animats wrote: post #190

Easy solution if you like tariffs: all imported items over $100 must have a 10 year full warranty.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...

Is it easy? What if an organization avoids liability through shell companies and financial engineering?

"The company managing your warranty was acquired by Foobar Inc and their sole building burned down destroying all records. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#205

Post by atoav »

The main problem is that most business are run by people who have no believe at all that you could run a successful company without tricking people into buying your product. That means they don't even try. The rare exception are companies where rhe founder is e.g. a principled engineer, or some German family business that does nothing but ball bearings in the 4th generation and their business model is basically to be the best at ball bearings. Something like that.

But so many publicly traded companies appear to basically have become stock gambling dens that accidentally produce some products on the side out of legacy reasons.

Many are of the kind that use quality only as a marketing statement and when it comes to the engineering choice they will not even shell out 10 cents more for stainless screws to hold the thing together.

The reasons why there is little quality products is because the incentives all point in the other direction for most companies. And where they don't it is usually a special niche product or the intrinsic values of one or a few individuals making the choice to put their ideals above their wallet.

If we want this to change we have to change the incentive structure.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#207

Post by pydry »

pphysch wrote: post #204
Animats wrote: post #190

Easy solution if you like tariffs: all imported items over $100 must have a 10 year full warranty.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...

Is it easy? What if an organization avoids liability through shell companies and financial engineering? "The company managing your warranty was acquired by Foobar Inc and their sole building burned down destroying all records. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Demand collateral

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#208

Post by irishcoffee »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #193
irishcoffee wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to switch from levis jeans to carhartt pants because my levis would rip after 5-6 months, almost like clockwork. No, I am not at all overweight. Carhartt just makes more durable pants, and I hate shopping.

Why would being overweight make your jeans rip? Only if you were buying the wrong size...

Sorry, stranger on the internet, I was simply qualifying a failure case.

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#209

Post by Joel_Mckay »

pphysch wrote: post #204
Animats wrote: post #190

Easy solution if you like tariffs: all imported items over $100 must have a 10 year full warranty.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...

Is it easy? What if an organization avoids liability through shell companies and financial engineering? "The company managing your warranty was acquired by Foobar Inc and their sole building burned down destroying all records. We apologize for the inconvenience."

When most fortune 500 companies burned brand-goodwill to sell disposable versions of products, it is credulous to believe all problems are external. =3

Re: Let's make quality the norm again

#210

Post by Animats »

pydry wrote: post #207
pphysch wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it easy? What if an organization avoids liability through shell companies and financial engineering? "The company managing your warranty was acquired by Foobar Inc and their sole building burned down destroying all records. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Demand collateral

That's what bonds are for. US customs requires prepaid bonds for other things. Importers who don't have enough assets would have to post a bond to cover repairs for the product. They get it back at 10 years.
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