31–40 of 117 posts
> There’s one honest footnote. I'm so tired of AI writing
> [..] , and on a site like this one that matters more than architectural purity. [..] Nothing in it depends on a build step [..] That distinction is worth keeping in mind [..] What matters is [..]
> There’s one honest footnote. I'm so tired of AI writing
And how all six people links are to LinkedIn, when most of them have websites. (Wouldn’t surprise me if some of the LinkedIn profiles were incorrect, but since you can no longer view anything on LinkedIn without having an account…)
The site is still live https://www.csszengarden.com , design selection here https://www.csszengarden.com/pages/alldesigns/ :).
The Bright Creative site is also AWOL.
Too bad neither is set up to redirect to the current https://daveshea.com/
Hope he's doing well. Guys like him, Doug Bowman, Jeffrey Zeldman... all a huge influence on teenaged-me hacking away on my little blog and thinking of going to SXSW someday.
EDIT: He's just left after being at Shopify for six years: https://lnkd.in/p/dcYBvQfq
Just give me a view and let me operate on things. We're going to have our "LCARS" moment soon. Where no one really needs to create a UI - the system creates one for you at time of use - based on what you're looking at and doing. We're no longer going to need UI/UX, everything will adapt to the person using things.
The CSS Zen Garden worked because everyone was using a single markup file. In real life, it doesn't really work. Instead of thinking of separation of concerns as a religious principle, think about what benefits it actually yields in the case of HTML. When the markup is completely separated from its styling, this means that the CSS rules need a way to be mapped onto the DOM. This involves specific elements, organized…
I also dont think you can cleanly separate HTML and style. Technically you can separate them but doing so in practice just handicaps your design and ability to express things in HTML and CSS (Zen Garden prohibiting css 3+ in most cases). People have this idea that they should be decoupled. You can do that if you really contort them. Naturally, they are coupled. The structure of HTML puts constraints on the style. You…
CSS Zen Garden in the era of agentic software development.... I would say we're at a point where if the entire site was developed in tables or CSS or a Rust based engine emitting wasm positioned elements - no one would care anymore. Just give me a view and let me operate on things. We're going to have our "LCARS" moment soon. Where no one really needs to create a UI - the system creates one for you at time of use - b…
It reminds me of people wanting Hollywood UIs that would obviously suck to actually use. Just completely ignoring the reality of using what you are suggesting.
The CSS Zen Garden worked because everyone was using a single markup file. In real life, it doesn't really work. Instead of thinking of separation of concerns as a religious principle, think about what benefits it actually yields in the case of HTML. When the markup is completely separated from its styling, this means that the CSS rules need a way to be mapped onto the DOM. This involves specific elements, organized…
I also dont think you can cleanly separate HTML and style. Technically you can separate them but doing so in practice just handicaps your design and ability to express things in HTML and CSS (Zen Garden prohibiting css 3+ in most cases). People have this idea that they should be decoupled. You can do that if you really contort them. Naturally, they are coupled. The structure of HTML puts constraints on the style. You…
I’d previously understood the relationship to be that the document could remain unchanged, whilst the style (including visual structure/layout) changed. The simplest canonical example is that you can change the font, and all the words and meaning remain unchanged.
> You see this with localization. You might need to change spacing or padding or breakpoints to accomodate different languages (text being different length in different languages).
This is a really intereting case. Strictly I’d say it was a different document, if the language has changed. Really good translations change idiom, which can change meaning, and words, at the level of ohraes, although the intent would be preserved.
But I’m nit-picking, being contrarian, or exploring the edges of your comment.
Today, many web documents are app GUIs. Each field is essentially the same “thing” regardless the languge of its label. And in that sense, these are the same document, and your point holds.
I still think that if you can keep the markup as minimal as possible (reduce the div nesting to just what’s require to mark up logical sections of the content), then you could make a good stab at Zen-gardening your design. It’s very hard to do, however.
good good but are there really websites with 2 or more variously different designs for the same content, like Zen Garden did?
Oh yeah. The fucking CSS Zen Garden. It started the trend that led to utter degradation of any usability in modern web interfaces. The idea was to make HTML decoupled from presentation, but the feeble CSS of that time could not express any real layouts. So very quickly web designers started to just hard-code pixel widths into the CSS, removing any dynamic sizing. For example, on this very page: https://csszengarden.c…
> There’s one honest footnote. I'm so tired of AI writing
It's okay to exercise nuanced views (as well as choosing to say nothing.)