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Java 27

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Re: Java 27

#51

Post by [deleted] »

Thaxll wrote: post #45
ndriscoll wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golang gives you none of nice features of a modern language while being about the same performance tier as Scala or Java, so there's basically no reason not to use Scala.

Golang is faster and use way less memory than Java, never wonder why you never see Kubernetes controller / sidecar is Java? As for Scala it's pretty much a dead language, no one work with it and it's impossible to find dev for it. 10 years ago I was moving Scala code back to regular Java.

[deleted]

Re: Java 27

#52

Post by grodriguez100 »

Betelbuddy wrote: post #39
moomin wrote: post #5

C# dev here: it’s amazing how different this is from a Microsoft release. First off, Oracle are doing versions at approximately twice the cadence. But also, and I’m guessing this is a function of the much larger Java audience: things rarely get two preview versions in a proper release. Updates in beta versions, yes, all the time. It also feels like Microsoft are bundling a lot more into the platform and leaving less…

>> Oracle are doing versions at approximately twice the cadence. This has nothing to do with Oracle. All good that you hear from Java in the last few years, is the great community and good old people from Sun working at Oracle.

“The good old people from Sun working at Oracle” is now Oracle as well.

Re: Java 27

#53

Post by [deleted] »

cogman10 wrote: post #43
kllrnohj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First off, Oracle are doing versions at approximately twice the cadence Is that actually a good thing? But Oracle started playing a game, for better or worse, where they decided to couple the "language version" with a single specific runtime's release schedule. For example, in "Java 27" there are exactly 0 language changes and 1 minor feature addition to the TLS library. Everything else is OpenJDK runtime internals…

There's not really a second C# runtime. Java has several, some based on the Openjdk, but a few that are completely new like OpenJ9 and Graal. The closest C# has is mono. This sort of thing is bound to happen with that situation. Heck, it happens with C++ whenever a new C++ version comes out. Some C++11 features took years to make their way into all the compilers.

[deleted]

Re: Java 27

#55

Post by msluyter »

BoppreH wrote: post #44
t0mas88 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When building boring web applications with a sizeable team that need to run for a long time. Hiring developers is easy since there are many, there is nearly no magic and the language is quite strict and type safe so it works well with a large team. And that "team" nowadays may also consist of many AI agents. In my experience Claude Code for example works very well with a typed, slightly boring language with lots of f…

> there is nearly no magic I agree with the rest, but there's definitely a lot of magic in Java. This is from both what features the languages makes available (many) and how the community uses them (often). I've had so many hard-to-debug issues in Java over the years due to reflection, annotations, and bytecode manipulation shenanigans. And another positive point for Java: checked exceptions. It's verbose, but knowin…

I haven't really been in the java space for a while now, but I recall there being a fair bit of criticism[1][2] of checked exceptions over the years.

[1] https://www.javacodegeeks.com/2026/01/javas-checked-exceptio...

[2] https://reflectoring.io/do-not-use-checked-exceptions/

WRT magic, I've generally thought that was a result of frameworks - Spring, for example. In the past, my feeling was that these impose a sort of meta/configuration language that itself is not checkable at compile time, so you'd get weird runtime errors that are somewhat inexplicable. This was like... 2018 though, so perhaps things have improved.

Re: Java 27

#56

Post by vlovich123 »

cogman10 wrote: post #43
kllrnohj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First off, Oracle are doing versions at approximately twice the cadence Is that actually a good thing? But Oracle started playing a game, for better or worse, where they decided to couple the "language version" with a single specific runtime's release schedule. For example, in "Java 27" there are exactly 0 language changes and 1 minor feature addition to the TLS library. Everything else is OpenJDK runtime internals…

There's not really a second C# runtime. Java has several, some based on the Openjdk, but a few that are completely new like OpenJ9 and Graal. The closest C# has is mono. This sort of thing is bound to happen with that situation. Heck, it happens with C++ whenever a new C++ version comes out. Some C++11 features took years to make their way into all the compilers.

Graal is based on OpenJDK. OpenJ9 while using a separate JVM and JIT leverage the openjdk class path as well as the build environment and various other things.

I don’t think there’s a single alternate implementation that doesn’t leverage a good chunk of openjdk somehow

Re: Java 27

#57

Post by pregnenolone »

arein3 wrote: post #10

Project Valhalla will go into Java 28 (next year, and preview version). Fingers crossed I'll manage to use null type safety in my lifetime.

> Project Valhalla will go into Java 28

Unfortunatley without specialized generics and without the performance benefits that are supposed to come with it. They were too slow with Valhalla.

Re: Java 27

#58

Post by throwaway91033 »

petilon wrote: post #36
moomin wrote: post #5

C# dev here: it’s amazing how different this is from a Microsoft release. First off, Oracle are doing versions at approximately twice the cadence. But also, and I’m guessing this is a function of the much larger Java audience: things rarely get two preview versions in a proper release. Updates in beta versions, yes, all the time. It also feels like Microsoft are bundling a lot more into the platform and leaving less…

> Microsoft are bundling a lot more into the platform and leaving less to the community. This is a good thing. In Java everything has multiple community offerings, so before doing anything you have to evaluate the community offerings and decide which one to go with. If you go with the wrong one you may end up having to switch at some point, and that can be painful. This happens so often that most of the time spent wh…

If someone wants to create a project by assembling bits and pieces from different open source products they can, but many just go for Spring (Boot) and call it a day.

All of my projects are based on Spring and I don't really have to look outside of that ecosystem. It almost acts as an aggregator of different open source solutions and often works by abstracting the functionality so that differences are not that big. I recently switched messaging providers and didn't have to change much of my code.

Re: Java 27

#60

Post by weego »

Thaxll wrote: post #45
ndriscoll wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golang gives you none of nice features of a modern language while being about the same performance tier as Scala or Java, so there's basically no reason not to use Scala.

Golang is faster and use way less memory than Java, never wonder why you never see Kubernetes controller / sidecar is Java? As for Scala it's pretty much a dead language, no one work with it and it's impossible to find dev for it. 10 years ago I was moving Scala code back to regular Java.

It's sad - I spent a good 12 years writing Scala every day and it was the ideal language for my brain. Until it wasn't - sbt got too complex for it's own good, everything became "very smart" developers over-using implicit conversions, you couldn't find a project that wasn't an opinion war on cats vs whatever. It collapsed on the weight of it's own smugness.

go and kotlin aren't it, gleam scratches the itch but I can't justify writing code that would impossible to hire for.

scala situation is a real shame.

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