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Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

bbc.com

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Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#131

Post by hagbard_c »

teekert wrote: post #65
hagbard_c wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think national news indeed is somewhat carefully suggesting farmers (ie [0]), actually it looks like it is escalating and they burning hay now. This article speaks of "Radical Farmer Leaders". [0] https://nos.nl/liveblog/2631038-hooibalen-in-brand-langs-sne...

The NOS is not the most unbiased news source in the Netherlands which is unfortunate. If it is indeed 'radical farm leaders' who are behind these sabotage actions they have turned up the temperature quite a bit and stand to lose a lot of support from the public. It would be a strange thing to do since there is not much overlap between farming and railways in the Netherlands, a small country with a strong agricultural sector which' products mostly travel by road, water and air.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#132

Post by sandos »

apt-get wrote: post #126
peri-cl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they look similar, the synchronicity notwithstanding. The sabotage in France was a 250–300 kg rail fragment (per your link). The objects in the Netherlands look much smaller, and look like they're intended to short-circuit two rails to trigger a signal fault. In one place they found car jumper cables with clamps attached to both rails, https://nos.nl/video/2631081-startkabels-van-spoor-bij-meppe... ( "S…

Not asserting this is definitely a Russian op (given the amount of simultaneous farmers' protests and all in NL today), but their modus operandi for foreign operations of this kind involves paying random thugs a few hundred to a couple thousand euros to carry out acts of sabotage using whatever items they have on hand. The items don't need to match, the people involved don't need to know each other.

Exactly this, and also they are trying to keep some deniability here, so variations are good.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#133

Post by toyg »

n4r9 wrote: post #57
hhh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no? if you are diligent you can say nothing and people will hopefully attribute it to your enemies and you get off with your own ploy of looking peaceful and harmless

In which case what do they gain here?

You can claim ownership via restricted channels, e.g. a phone call to key politicians, and rely on their self-interest to keep things quiet while understanding the threat.

In some cases, if the action is a bit too effective, you might even want to avoid it being pinned on you. Al Qaeda occasionally refused to claim ownership of things they very plainly did, and the Russians do it very often (e.g. when they shot down a Dutch passenger plane a few years ago).

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#134

Post by toyg »

embedding-shape wrote: post #55
maxboone wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming rational goals instead of thinking in radical acts of terrorism. Throwing paint at a painting does not help the environment, but it does create radical flank effects. Blocking the highways does not help agriculture, but it does bring their problems in other people's home / discourse.

You're misunderstanding why they do those things in the first place. You're referencing real activities here, how many of those activities you references people refused to take responsibility for doing? Look at photos from these events you refer to, people are proudly holding banners and signs here, not trying to be anonymous and flee from police and intelligence services. Have you never participated in political act…

It's a spectrum. You derail a train and nobody gets hurt? Shout it from the rooftops! You derail a train and people die? "Wasn't me, guv."

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#136

Post by pprotas »

Zagitta wrote: post #129
pprotas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely organized by farmer protest groups (FDF for example) to protest against emission restriction regulation. They are known for their dangerous stunts, including driving their tractors on the highway and spraying manure on government buildings. These actions are tolerated by the Dutch police, which willingly and purposefully refuses to punish these acts.

Farmers and right wing people in all of Europe are actively being disinformed by Russian intelligence service and either wilfully ignores it or too incompetent to realize it.

We are all being disinformed, whether it's by a foreign or our own government. This is not a problem unique to Europe, right-wingers, farmers or Russia. The goal is to have us fight while the powerful become even more powerful. It is important to be aware of this fact, it is not just "the other side I don't agree with" that are affected, and thinking of them as willfully ignorant or incompetent is what the powerful would like you to think (infighting is the goal).

You are right in the sense that there is likely an underlying meddling causing these farmers to act this way. It does not excuse their actions.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#137

Post by markvdb »

shakna wrote: post #48
cyclopeanutopia wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is involved in many acts of sabotage in Europe over past 2 or 3 years, so this is a very natural first guess for us, European citizens. They also started increasing their activity recently.

Today is also Prinsjesdag. So pissed off Dutch is more likely. As it has been, for the last three years running with highways getting blocked on this day...

One, the other, or a mix of both! If I were a foreign agent wanting to sow chaos, I'd look for the easy to press buttons. Encouraging pissed-off Dutch citizens would be an obvious part of the plan.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#138

Post by piva00 »

hagbard_c wrote: post #131
teekert wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think national news indeed is somewhat carefully suggesting farmers (ie [0]), actually it looks like it is escalating and they burning hay now. This article speaks of "Radical Farmer Leaders". [0] https://nos.nl/liveblog/2631038-hooibalen-in-brand-langs-sne...

The NOS is not the most unbiased news source in the Netherlands which is unfortunate. If it is indeed 'radical farm leaders' who are behind these sabotage actions they have turned up the temperature quite a bit and stand to lose a lot of support from the public. It would be a strange thing to do since there is not much overlap between farming and railways in the Netherlands, a small country with a strong agricultural…

These same farmers? [0]

[0] https://www.dutchnews.nl/2026/08/two-killed-on-a59-as-tracto...

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#139

Post by piva00 »

crazybonkersai wrote: post #118
cbg0 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting the "correct" narrative from?

By reading multiple sources by different parties and thinking for yourself. Truth is the first casualty of war.

That's the usual trope used as an escape for the question: where are your sources?

Provide them or stop being so defensive about it, being defensive just shows you got not substance to your claim. Show, don't tell, if you can't show then you might have to do some more thinking by yourself to figure out why you ended up that way.

Re: Suspected sabotage causes major Netherlands rail disruption

#140

Post by cucumber3732842 »

toasty228 wrote: post #17
maxboone wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know whether this was Russia, it's just as likely it was the "farmers defence force" or climate activists. Edit: some context as I'm looking like a Russian shill now, which I understand. Today is the day that the budget gets announced, and the farmer terrorist organization (farmer defence force) have announced actions - and have disrupted highways by setting bales of hay on fire, and all the disruptions happ…

In the case of France it is pretty obvious, they would never attack random people in such a way. They either target public infrastructure or very specific politician/execs properties, not random people, and definitely not in a way that could result in deaths.

>or very specific politician/execs properties, not random people,

I don't know enough about dutch politics but in my country if the blue collar anti-regulation people wanted to annoy the white collar pro-regulation people without annoying other blue collar people stopping the trains would accomplish that pretty handily.

>and definitely not in a way that could result in deaths.

They laid pipes and jumper cables across the tracks causing the signals to be red.

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