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People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

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Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#241

Post by Semaphor »

sph wrote: post #237

I keep reading about people with aphantasia in threads like these, and I never hear from who don’t have it explain what do they see and how vivid it is. Does everyone have aphantasia? Is it like ADHD where finding a person that doesn’t claim to have it is pretty much impossible?

I don’t have ADHD¹, there. But anyway, while I have aphantasia, almost everyone I talk to reports being able to see images, most being able to manipulate them. From my incredibly small sample size of ~20, my sister was the only one with possibly mild aphantasia, 1 guy online and a girl I know possibly have hyperphantasia (very realistic images coming into their mind’s eye unbidden), and everyone else were confused about me not being able to imagine/see anything.

¹: Though I do (likely) have auditory processing disorder which wikipedia called ADHD for the ears, so maybe it fits.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#242

Post by sph »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #238
sph wrote: post #237

I keep reading about people with aphantasia in threads like these, and I never hear from who don’t have it explain what do they see and how vivid it is. Does everyone have aphantasia? Is it like ADHD where finding a person that doesn’t claim to have it is pretty much impossible?

On an article about left-handedness, would you expect the comments to be full of people talking about how they're right-handed?

Where are the articles about non-aphantasic people? And those from neurotypical people with rock-solid focus for that matter.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#243

Post by Semaphor »

karmakaze wrote: post #135
chiefgeek wrote: post #17

I’ve worked as a professional photographer for twenty years and I visualize absolutely zero with my eyes closed. It’s only recently that I learned of aphantasia. Even on most psychedelic journeys I don’t have closed eye visuals, NN-DMT being the consistent exception. Everything is more of just a “knowingness”.

I've also had this kind of topological knowingness which I couldn't name. Another comment here says "schematic conceptual" which captures what it feels like for me. Another good explanation here is that it's all taking place but that last step of creating the visual is suppressed (as intended) while conscious as that would be hallucinating.

I sometimes called it "textual memory of an image", but I also liked TFA with "we experience these as an awareness of a set of spatial facts"

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#244

Post by applfanboysbgon »

sph wrote: post #242
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an article about left-handedness, would you expect the comments to be full of people talking about how they're right-handed?

Where are the articles about non-aphantasic people? And those from neurotypical people with rock-solid focus for that matter.

"Where are the articles about right-handed people?" Not being written, you'd wager, because normalcy isn't interesting.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#246

Post by bondarchuk »

sph wrote: post #237

I keep reading about people with aphantasia in threads like these, and I never hear from who don’t have it explain what do they see and how vivid it is. Does everyone have aphantasia? Is it like ADHD where finding a person that doesn’t claim to have it is pretty much impossible?

I would like to know especially what is the perceived difference between normal imagination and hallucination. The way people with mental visualization explain it it sounds basically exactly what I always imagined hallucinations to be like. And e.g. closed-eye visuals on psychedelics. Why is it so special to have closed-eye visuals when most people have closed-eye visuals anyway?

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#247

Post by rhdunn »

culopatin wrote: post #198

Aphantastic people of HN. Do you struggle remembering things in detail? My gfs family is all aohantastic and they just realized that it’s why they tell stories that are all a bit inaccurate. They remember the story but when placement, colors, shapes, etc come up, they can’t really tell you what it was. Comes up in weird ways

My internal thoughts are verbal and don't see pictures as a normal part of my inner though process.

When someone says "imagine a pink elephant in the room" I don't see a pink elephant, but instead have an inner dialogue to the effect of "ok, so there's a pink elephant in the corner." I may also recall an image of an elephant, but it's not pink and it's not really in the room.

When there is a concrete thing that I have a memory of ("picture a squirrel", specific things from holidays, etc.) I can see flashes of still images from those. I don't see a generic squirrel, but a specific image/memory of a squirrel I have seen.

I have general placement/shape awareness but not so much colours or other specific details. I can infer things like colour from context, or have a thought to the effect of "that building was white" but I don't really see the building as white.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#250

Post by throwaway91033 »

IAmBroom wrote: post #142

A test was recently mentioned to me, regarding aphantasia vs visual thinkers. Imagine a cube that has a red top and bottom and front face, and all other faces are blue. How many edges are red on one side and blue on the other? Now, in solving that, if you are a visual thinker, you may have actually mentally "turned" the cube to "look" at the other side. I can exactly pinpoint doing that in my mind, to count the edges…

> you may have actually mentally "turned" the cube to "look" at the other sid

As a visual thinker, I could have rotated the cube if I wanted, but I actually looked at all sides at once, if it makes sense. I could "see" all sides of the cube at the same time. I am not sure how common this is, but in addition to seeing it as an "image" I can sometimes, not always, also sense the total structure of a construct and be aware of all of the physical "sides"

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