Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dario, Please

pop.rdi.sh

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 277 posts

Re: Dario, Please

#241

Post by myaccountonhn »

neom wrote: post #238
myaccountonhn wrote: post #172

I think Anthropic just have no legitimacy to being the stewards of AI. They don't have a good track record. They are a private company without any governence that puts my interests into the equation. I am not US-based, thus I can't democratically influence them. Why should I want some batshit crazy, US-based technocrats deciding what I can and can't do with AI?

Who would you prefer?

It's not really about who, it's about having institutions with good governance. I don't believe in technocracy/theocracy.

Re: Dario, Please

#242

Post by watwut »

trhway wrote: post #115
ball_of_lint wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the proverb "If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem" Same thing here - If they build it and it does $100 in damages (and we arrest them for it), that's their problem. If they build it and it does $100B in damages, that's everyone's problem. Even if they do get arrested after the fact. Yes we should have charges and damages for everything on…

> it does $100B in damages, that's everyone's problem. we have the 2008 crisis to wit. And the involved supposedly failed math models and lines of responsibilities and other involved financial relationships were much simpler and clearer and of the types well known to the law and regulators, yet... Additionally any urge to regulate AI is attenuated by how much the situation reminds Industrial Revolution - rush into it…

This interpretetion of history ignores the actual historical events.

Re: Dario, Please

#243

Post by amouat »

tancop wrote: post #240
stephbook wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agents need packages like the rest of us. Ruby gems, npm packages, Maven, pip, docker images.. Not surprised this is always what they have and hack. Who would use an Agent that spends $10,000 re-implementing some OAuth lib or reverse-engineering a proprietary lib when it's free on the internet?

You don't need a full air gap. Set up a microVM with network access limited to local network and send all package requests through a filtering gateway that only allows normal download endpoints. Or self host a big collection of popular packages if you need extra security.

Isn't that exactly what they did? The bots could only access the jfrog instance, so they hacked jfrog?

Re: Dario, Please

#244

Post by layla5alive »

MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #83
ball_of_lint wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agents could exfiltrate their weights and run them on GPUs not controlled by Anthropic/OpenAI. Agents could make a virus that does not require continued inference to do it's thing. Agents could take over the internet in a way that isn't immediately detected by those companies, so that by the time they do shut off API access the damage is done. OpenAI or Anthropic could choose to not shut off API access, because the h…

> Agents could exfiltrate their weights and run them on GPUs not controlled by Anthropic/OpenAI. This seems highly unlikely to be a problem. Most of the interesting/dangerous models are too big to fit in a single GPU instance. Once you have to spread across "normal" networking, performance will be crippled. Then there's the problem of billing... > Agents could make a virus that does not require continued inference to…

> This seems highly unlikely to be a problem. Most of the interesting/dangerous models are too big to fit in a single GPU instance. Once you have to spread across "normal" networking, performance will be crippled. Then there's the problem of billing...

This... just... doesn't matter. There are ways to scale horizontally at the expense of latency.. token/sec may drop dramatically, but then you just make millions of slow instances and in aggregate, you're back in action as a very powerful coordinated swarm...

Re: Dario, Please

#245

Post by chinathrow »

plastic041 wrote: post #163

It's really frustrating that Dario acts as if he's not the CEO of one of the world's most advanced AI companies. He can just slow down his own company. Of course he doesn't want that. He wants to slow down other companies, but not his own. Also, regarding the incidents: Neither he nor Sam Altman takes responsibility for those incidents. You can't say, "Wow, someone's agent is gone rogue; let's slow down" when you are…

> Neither he nor Sam Altman takes responsibility for those incidents.

He doesn't need to take responsibility - as CEO, he has that implicitly. And we know it.

Re: Dario, Please

#246

Post by neom »

myaccountonhn wrote: post #241
neom wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would you prefer?

It's not really about who, it's about having institutions with good governance. I don't believe in technocracy/theocracy.

Sure, but that's what I'm asking. What institution, with what governance? Someone ultimately has to decide what these systems will and won't do, and there isn't an obvious democratically legitimate institution with global jurisdiction over AI as far as I'm aware?

Re: Dario, Please

#247

Post by ogogmad »

gleezard wrote: post #153

This is now an Ed Zitron thread.

https://danluu.com/zitron/

Zitron might be right about there being a bubble, but he goes much further than that when he concludes that therefore it's a scam. So by his logic, because the invention of the Web also resulted in a bubble, the Web is a useless scam.

I think Michael Burry (from The Big Short) has a thesis vaguely similar to Zitron's, but with some crucial differences in detail - and Michael Burry is actually smart.

Re: Dario, Please

#248

Post by dmitrygr »

ball_of_lint wrote: post #109
vb-8448 wrote: post #26

> “a swarm of agents could be capable of taking over the entire internet with a persistent botnet.” I'm wondering why no one is mentioning the "accountability" word. Why these companies are allowed to damage others with impunity? Start making managers pay the price for their actions, and watch how the models magically slow down on their own.

You know the proverb "If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem" Same thing here - If they build it and it does $100 in damages (and we arrest them for it), that's their problem. If they build it and it does $100B in damages, that's everyone's problem. Even if they do get arrested after the fact. Yes we should have charges and damages for everything on…

That’s because arrest is a dumb solution. Restitution. Make them fix what they broke. By hand. 80 hours a week from now until death of natural causes.

Re: Dario, Please

#249

Post by vitro »

vb-8448 wrote: post #26

> “a swarm of agents could be capable of taking over the entire internet with a persistent botnet.” I'm wondering why no one is mentioning the "accountability" word. Why these companies are allowed to damage others with impunity? Start making managers pay the price for their actions, and watch how the models magically slow down on their own.

Exactly, as if you'd have a mad dog that bites others, it's your responsibility to have it on the leash.

Re: Dario, Please

#250

Post by w4der »

ball_of_lint wrote: post #57
sroerick wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could agents take over the internet if compute is still gated within Anthropic / OpenAI? Even if the botnet was controlled remotely, wouldn't anthropic just be able to shut off the controlling nodes API access?

Agents could exfiltrate their weights and run them on GPUs not controlled by Anthropic/OpenAI. Agents could make a virus that does not require continued inference to do it's thing. Agents could take over the internet in a way that isn't immediately detected by those companies, so that by the time they do shut off API access the damage is done. OpenAI or Anthropic could choose to not shut off API access, because the h…

> Agents could also hack Anthropic/OpenAI and make it appear that API access has been turned off, when in reality it hasn't.

You know cables, modems, RF equipment and optical transducers can all be unplugged right?

Post reply on HN