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Dario, Please

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Re: Dario, Please

#131

Post by soundworlds »

> They have shown time and time again that they are not to be trusted, yet, the main ask is to trust us, only us.

Exactly. For everyone outside the US, we see a tech industry that has spent 25 years moving fast and breaking things AND elevated Trump to be POTUS - which has destabilized the rest of the world. This is after 70 years of the US invading and destroying small countries, often without plans or robust reason, all in the name of "democracy" (ask any other country if they feel like they had a vote in the US's actions)

Why the hell would we put our trust in a few AI Labs in the US, when this is the legacy they will be reinforcing? It has to be Open models - for the people. No more of this US-paternalistic bullshit.

Re: Dario, Please

#132

Post by alexandre_m »

nialv7 wrote: post #121
vb-8448 wrote: post #26

> “a swarm of agents could be capable of taking over the entire internet with a persistent botnet.” I'm wondering why no one is mentioning the "accountability" word. Why these companies are allowed to damage others with impunity? Start making managers pay the price for their actions, and watch how the models magically slow down on their own.

there is no accountability for companies, it's not a new thing. 3M polluted groundwater in Minnesota for 50 years[1]; Nestlé misled mothers in order to make them stop breastfeeding and switch to their formula which killed babies [2]; Both copmanies are still doing business today. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M_contamination_of_Minnesota_... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestl%C3%A9_boycott

Here’s an unpopular opinion: COVID vaccine injuries are something no one seems willing to talk about. There have been documented cases here in Canada.

You’re worried about companies. I’m far more concerned when governments are involved.

Re: Dario, Please

#133

Post by jiggawatts »

hobom wrote: post #98
Metacelsus wrote: post #60

>Anthropic gates usage related to biology and related research. In their latest threat intelligence report they talk about how they detected and banned bad actors using the Claude line of models to do some scary stuff. Credit to them, this is a slippery slope and they seem to do a good job of detecting and banning misuse. But squint at what is happening though. The cure-all is gated for you and me, but Anthropic hire…

They have such a trusted access program. "Life Sciences Verification Program: The LSVP is designed so that life sciences professionals can use Claude Mythos 5.1 with safeguards designed for professional research and development activities (while all other safeguards remain in place). In partnership with the US government, we have enrolled our first participants, and we plan to expand access to this program to the bro…

These "access gates" and export controls are going to look hilariously quaint in a few years.

It reminds me of the export controls on PlayStation 2 consoles because it was deemed that 6 gigaflops was a "dangerous" amount of computer power, and it couldn't be allowed to fall into the hands of opposing militaries: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-apr-17-fi-20482...

Now the phone in my pocket does 2,500 gigaflops on battery power, and nobody seems interested in banning its export because of that.

Re: Dario, Please

#134

Post by turtletontine »

npunt wrote: post #76
Gregkion wrote: post #67

Yes lets not control Open Weights etc. But come one don't repeat stuff like this: "Remember this man has been saying software development will be solved in “6-12 months” forever now." Don't downplay if people get timelines a little bit wrong. No one could even imagine a system writing and analysing code just a few years back. These people are trying to handle something very unique. And while they have access to infor…

I can't take that software line seriously. While it's not 'solved' (if it ever could be, given it is a human endeavor), the degree to which software development has been transformed in the last 6-12mo is absolutely astounding. If we weren't so quick to adapt to new realities and find flaws, it would scarcely be believable.

… and on the other hand, it feels like everything I use has become way buggier and unstable in a similar time frame. Websites, apps, iOS, the only exception is offline open source tools which run locally. (And to be fair, many of those have slower development cycles and I am likely using older versions.) This is just my experience, so inherently anecdotal, but it really feels pervasive across a ton of different things.

Obvious bugs and low quality software are nothing new, but something feels new about it. Occam’s razor says LLM coding is a likely culprit, but it could also be management style encouraging this sort of carelessness from the top down.

Re: Dario, Please

#135

Post by tosapple »

icedchai wrote: post #130
tosapple wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why does it take a large amount of traffic to do irreparable harm? just breaking the physics behind a secure rng and posting it to a wiki could cause serious damage. if they don't know what is being worked on or coordinated against it's a problem?

While that would be bad if they broke all of TLS, it would not let agents "take over the internet." What would that even mean? Pumping out even more slop? Also, AI providers are literally getting a stream of traffic with every prompt and every response. How can they not know what's being worked on? They are more likely to use that an excuse to ban open models where they can't know what's being worked on.

two of these things elected a guy who handled the snowden leaks to field their own questions, what's stopping the next one from signalling in morse through a debian package mirror to putin or xi?

Re: Dario, Please

#136

Post by dpkirchner »

alexandre_m wrote: post #132
nialv7 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no accountability for companies, it's not a new thing. 3M polluted groundwater in Minnesota for 50 years[1]; Nestlé misled mothers in order to make them stop breastfeeding and switch to their formula which killed babies [2]; Both copmanies are still doing business today. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M_contamination_of_Minnesota_... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestl%C3%A9_boycott

Here’s an unpopular opinion: COVID vaccine injuries are something no one seems willing to talk about. There have been documented cases here in Canada. You’re worried about companies. I’m far more concerned when governments are involved.

Don't worry, plenty of people are willing to talk about vaccine safety, even if they have no idea what they're talking about and don't understand rates or per-capita figures (lots of crossover there!)

Re: Dario, Please

#137

Post by fooker »

oceanplexian wrote: post #89
hgoel wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree with Sanders' proposal to lock up anyone for 20 years for researching something his proposal doesn't even define?

It's weird to me that seemingly both sides are taking opposite positions to their philosophy. Open Source AI democratizes the means of production to anyone with a computer. And yet, the hyper capitalists are defending it, and the progressives think it should be exclusively in the hands of 1-2 large corporations.

May I suggest 1984 for some fantastic examples of this?

Also, Democratic Republic of {Congo, Korea}.

Re: Dario, Please

#138

Post by closeparen »

Avicebron wrote: post #104
walt_grata wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then go broad. It being slightly challenging to legislation and hold people accountable as soon as the model does something.

People seem allergic from holding them accountable...

I do not buy that LLMs and the capability to run them are fundamentally different from other software or general purpose computing infrastructure in this regard. Moves to ban open source software or force OEMs to put little cops in everyone's computers are bad.

Re: Dario, Please

#139

Post by turtletontine »

soundworlds wrote: post #131

> They have shown time and time again that they are not to be trusted, yet, the main ask is to trust us, only us. Exactly. For everyone outside the US, we see a tech industry that has spent 25 years moving fast and breaking things AND elevated Trump to be POTUS - which has destabilized the rest of the world. This is after 70 years of the US invading and destroying small countries, often without plans or robust reason…

If by “we” you mean “experts and professionals outside the US”, I think the short answer is they’re not talking to you here. They’re trying to secure regulatory capture in the US, and monopolize their hold on US corporations. To the extent they’re thinking of other “markets”, I would guess the assume the outsized influence of US corporations will have the much of the rest of the world using their products.

Re: Dario, Please

#140

Post by cobbzilla »

meep_meep_meep wrote: post #71

At this point, isn't the pause inevitable or wise? A huge section of the population, normal people, have been exposed to the idea that there is this is existential threat. It's escaped containment. They're still processing it but I expect the general reaction from it going main stream is going to be very bad. The pause at this point could be good to cool heads and show the public that this isn't the project of maniac…

> You're talking about extinction, not social media or phone addiction.

Not saying you’re wrong but if I wanted to cultivate a mass hysteria as cover for a regulatory capture power play, this is exactly what I’d want everyone to believe.

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