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Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

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Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#151

Post by theturtletalks »

truncate wrote: post #107
theturtletalks wrote: post #96

People don’t realize how big of a threat LLMs are to marketplaces like Amazon, because down the line people will just be talking to AI agents to help them find products, check out, do all of these things. So you’re probably like, why can’t I just use ChatGPT to do that? And you can, but ChatGPT is trying to become the new Amazon. They are trying to vet stores that can check out through ChatGPT officially, and so you’…

I've mixed opinions on that. For example, there are products like Google Shopping or Google Travel etc. They show up bunch of stores where you can buy a flight ticket or a particular product from. However, in the end most people just end up buying it from top 2-3 marketplaces anyway, not because its cheaper, but also because they can trust it, it arrives in 2 days, and you can easily return it if you don't want. So i…

Yes Amazon’s power is very difficult to overcome. The hope with my marketplace is that stores will offer cheaper prices since we are interfacing with them directly and they are not paying Amazon a cut.

Also, Amazon Prime is affordable now, but it will get more and more expensive. They have a large distribution network but most of their drivers are contractors. Amazon also is not as powerful in non-Western countries. They still rely on many different websites depending on need.

Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#152

Post by willmeyers »

gz5 wrote: post #16

Can't comment on the legal basis in the eyes of CFAA or DAFA, but from a business perspective AI is a legit threat to Amazon because headless Amazon makes it more difficult for Amazon to sell ads, which is a large part of their revenue. Meaning, even if merchants would have a difficult time moving from Amazon to an AI native version of Amazon, this is still a threat.

SKU-level transactions is what everyone wants. If an agent owned by Perplexity or whomever can capture that data from your Amazon account they can resell that data to advertisers. If they had the ability to access your account and "scrape" your entire purchase history from when you created the account... that's very valuable and Amazon does not want that.

Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#153

Post by lotsofpulp »

theturtletalks wrote: post #128
hmokiguess wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is not just the frontend. There is a whole supply chain side of it with warehouses, distributors, couriers, etc. Inventory and stock readiness, shipping, and other things will continue to be bottlenecks for consumerism at scale.

3PLs and warehouse distribution channels have gotten better and are cheaper than using FBA shipping outside Amazon. Did you know the biggest sellers on Amazon normally have their own website and in fact, orders from Amazon flow directly into their OMS (order management system). Amazon is simply a sales channel. Also Amazon has a stronghold in western countries but much less so in gulf states, South Asia, and Africa.

Amazon's biggest feature is free returns. I would not buy even a quarter of the stuff on Amazon if I was not confident that I could easily return it.

Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#154

Post by semiquaver »

40four wrote: post #146
eigencoder wrote: post #28

I'm naive on the law around this, but it seems like Amazon.com shouldn't have standing here. What Perplexity does, from my perspective, is essentially the same as when I allow Firefox, Chrome, or Safari (or any other browser software) to see my credentials and access Amazon's website on my behalf.

Your feeling turned it to be correct. Amazon lost the case in the appellate court.

But not on standing grounds.

And no, Amazon did not lose the “case”, which usually means “the whole lawsuit”. The current posture is still at the preliminary injunction stage. Amazon was granted a PI by district court (basically “perplexity, stop this now while litigation is ongoing”) and the appeals court overturned. Now the actual case can proceed at the district level.

Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#155

Post by DonsDiscountGas »

theturtletalks wrote: post #96

People don’t realize how big of a threat LLMs are to marketplaces like Amazon, because down the line people will just be talking to AI agents to help them find products, check out, do all of these things. So you’re probably like, why can’t I just use ChatGPT to do that? And you can, but ChatGPT is trying to become the new Amazon. They are trying to vet stores that can check out through ChatGPT officially, and so you’…

Amazon still probably make it via AWS, but other websites you may be right.

Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#158

Post by theturtletalks »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #153
theturtletalks wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3PLs and warehouse distribution channels have gotten better and are cheaper than using FBA shipping outside Amazon. Did you know the biggest sellers on Amazon normally have their own website and in fact, orders from Amazon flow directly into their OMS (order management system). Amazon is simply a sales channel. Also Amazon has a stronghold in western countries but much less so in gulf states, South Asia, and Africa.

Amazon's biggest feature is free returns. I would not buy even a quarter of the stuff on Amazon if I was not confident that I could easily return it.

But even that is being enshittified. You have to pay for some returns now. And people have been putting defective to get free shipping returns and Amazon has just started a fee for returning items for the wrong reason.

Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#159

Post by Yhippa »

dzonga wrote: post #40

this is a welcome ruling. most of these search engine like companies including metasearch etc benefit from scrapping data on the onset, but then want to bring up TOS when they get scrapped. in the age of agents - if your agent does work on your behalf on a particular site that should be legal.

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/monitori...

Amazon sells a service which could automatically scrape screens for you. I've been messing around with this at work and this could absolutely be used the "wrong way".

Re: Amazon vs. Perplexity – U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit

#160

Post by imglorp »

I'm just fascinated by the massive volume of new legal implications that keep arising. Copyright holders vs scraping and training. Psychologically vulnerable people vs chatbots. Hiring discrimination, defamation, wrong face rec, privacy. Etc^10. The law, and society ethics, were so unprepared for all this.

The lawyers are the obvious winners as always.

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