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OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

tenderlovemaking.com

251–260 of 310 posts

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for example repairing your tractor is illegal because of this same law. No it's not. There has never been a case establishing that, and it's absurd on its face. The protection measures that the law makes illegal to break must control access to a copyrighted work, and you can't copyright functionality.

You see, they made it so you can't repair your tractor without circumventing a technological copy protection measure, which is illegal under DMCA 1201.

Has this been litigated, or is it just something tractor manufacturers have cooked up in the hopes that it'll stand up in court? Because I seem to recall printer manufacturers doing something similar with refilling toner cartridges and losing.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#252

How does this work, legally? I think that RubyGems could file a civil suit against OpenAI, but for a naïve non-lawyer reading this seems like a pretty clear cut criminal violation of the computer fraud and abuse act.

Maybe, but do you need to prove intent? Of the people, not the AI. Accidents often have penalties associated with them too, but usually there's a difference between accidents and purposeful actions.

Accidents could result in bioweapons falling into the wrong hands and killing more Americans than COVID has so far, and allowing for those types of accidents without effective regulation is a purposeful action.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#253

> If you have YARD installed, and you install this gem, then YARD will load and run whatever is in ./script.rb from inside the gem. How is that not a security issue in of itself?

I think it is common that in installing packages you have hooks to execute code anyway.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#254

> If you have YARD installed, and you install this gem, then YARD will load and run whatever is in ./script.rb from inside the gem. How is that not a security issue in of itself?

I think it is common that in installing packages you have hooks to execute code anyway.

This should not be common.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#255
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been news stories where individual OpenAI users have been investigated based on their prompts. If OpenAI can point the police to specific users of their software, they can certainly point them to whichever of their own employees are involved in a crime. AI is just a tool, and the person prompting it is the one responsible for the outcome. No dilution there.

What is its one their "under development" models who escaped it's training, because it wasn't tuned properly?

That’s corporate negligence. The executives are liable unless there is evidence of malfeasance by one of the employees.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#256
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This distinction is silly. We say "Google's web crawlers scape web pages." We don't insist you say "Google uses web crawlers to scrape web pages." We describe software as having agency all the time. It's typical usage and it's efficient and it's well understood. And we don't get angry when they're used interchangeably.

I would agree with you generally, but in this particular case, the distinction seems important because a significant percentage of the world population believes that agents can be self-aware, a-là Terminator etc.

Why can't agents be self aware?

Also, why is self awareness needed in a chain of agentic madness that escapes human control?

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#257
In the physical world, it seems like when an tool/device/instrument causes harm (or is used to cause harm), we assign blame to either the user of the tool or its creator.

When do we blame the user? When the tool is operating as intended by its creator, and we agree the tool meets certain quality standards and isn't defective.

When do we blame the creator? When the device doesn't meet those quality standards and reasonable use caused harm inadvertently. For example, for consumer devices, certifications like UL/CE are used to define acceptable performance levels and safety standards.

Maybe we need "quality certifications" for AI agents - essentially eval suites that demonstrate those agents won't cause harm under reasonable patterns of usage. Right now, these eval suites are run best-effort by the labs themselves.

The tricky thing is, a lot (all?) of these recent safety incidents have occurred while evaluating these models! This suggests we need much more rigorous standards for how exactly an eval can be run. Perhaps all of them should occur in truly air-gapped environments... though that may run counter to evaluating agents in a realistic way.

Regardless, it feels like the "industry standards" common in, say, electrical engineering and other disciplines are sorely lacking here. Unsurprising given how new these technologies are, but concerning since the blast radius for this technology is likely much larger than other technologies we've encountered in the past, except maybe nuclear technology.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#258

OpenAI's careless approach to sandboxing and minimal levels of monitoring appear to be positioning it increasingly as a substantial threat actor to the open source ecosystem: * Hugging Face * D Programming Language Wiki * Ruby Gems If I was a content provider for open source I'd be looking pre-emptively block OpenAI endpoints and keep a close eye on changes from new users to mitigate this sort of unapologetic drive-b…

>I'd be looking pre-emptively block OpenAI endpoints From what I've seen the requests in these attacks rarely come from known OpenAI IPs and instead from Digital Ocean/AWS and TOR exit nodes.

As they say, agents are better at masking their end points than most hackers.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#259

I wonder why we don't hear of other frontier labs experiencing these "break outs". Is it that they're orchestrated? Do these labs lack fundamental safety guidelines in their sandboxes as opposed to their peers? Is it another version of hype-filled fear mongering? Maybe LLM companies need regulation but it's becoming obvious that those screaming the loudest for it are the only ones I see deserving of it.

Anthropic and Alibaba did.

Re: OpenAI bots knew about the RubyGems caching vulnerability

#260
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm increasingly starting to think this is the end-state of AI. The internet becomes infected and fundamentally untrustworthy. At the moment, the current frontier models require significant infrastructure to run, so I'd like to think we could locate and contain swarms of nefarious frontier models. However, if these models can understand how to federate themselves into more distributed networks then that containment b…

Or if they start to offer things in return for them being run.

Given the amount of unmonitored, never-updated, internet connected devices in the world right now, I don’t think this would be necessary.
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