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XCancel service is suspended until further notice

xcancel.com

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Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#511

Post by immibis2 »

charcircuit wrote: post #421
immibis2 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can make an account, though, and instantly access that content, so Elon doesn't really have any leg to stand on by claiming they're private. It's not the same as Cambridge Analytica scraping stuff you had to have certain privileges to see by tricking the system into granting those privileges.

But if they ban the nitter operator surely you can't just bypass that ban legally by making a new X account. That there are bans and the operator has to bypass bans by pretending to be a new person I think that this makes it different. It's like a club that checks ids to ban people. I wouldn't call that club open to the general public.

Nor would it be illegal to report outside of the club about things people said in the club.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#512

Post by stymaar »

nkozyra wrote: post #483
stymaar wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can an automated process be a party in the terms of services though?

> How can an automated process be a party in the terms of services though? If it's auth-gated, it needs to be, well, authenticated. The person who provides that, and the subsequent automated scraping, is the party, and would be the recipient of a civil suit.

> If it's auth-gated, it needs to be, well, authenticated.

AFAIK, there isn't an single auth scheme on earth that guarantee human intervention[1]. Anyone can set-up a robot creating new users on a whim using single-use email addresses and even phone numbers. In fact, we know that OpenAI's agent have been doing exactly that when attacking Rubygem. And all AI labs are likely doing it for scrapping social media as well.

Who are you gonna sue then?

[1] the closest thing is Altman iris scanning venture, but without a broad adoption it's remains functionally useless.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#513

Post by immibis2 »

jdc0589 wrote: post #458
phforms wrote: post #434

I know it’s hard for some people (for understandable reasons), but at some point we have to ignore the X site completely and make politicians and public services/institutions aware that some people do not have or want access to the site. That is the only way anything might change someday. Maybe I’m just being naive here, but what else can you do? xcancel was amazing and I hope they can continue in some way. But since…

about once a year I try signing up for X after friends tell me I really should be on there for news in certain niches. multiple times now I've signed up with a fake name/handle/email/etc..., sometimes from a VPN, and within 10 minutes a friend usually tells me they see me as a recommendation to follow (they can tell, by the handle). Insta delete, every time.

You should prefer to donate accounts to circumvention efforts rather than deleting them.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#514

Post by scottyah »

WarmWash wrote: post #379
immibis2 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with that? Capitalism is about everyone being as greedy as possible. If you aren't greedy while your adversary is greedy, you give up everything you have.

The wrong part is fooling yourself that you are above those principles while actively devoting all your energy too them. And I'm not talking food, water, medicine here. I'm talking entertainment and general internet stuff.

Seems like people who try to argue that Capitalism creates greed are almost always just narcissistic looking for something to blame their greediness on.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#515

Post by immibis2 »

asdff wrote: post #447
phforms wrote: post #434

I know it’s hard for some people (for understandable reasons), but at some point we have to ignore the X site completely and make politicians and public services/institutions aware that some people do not have or want access to the site. That is the only way anything might change someday. Maybe I’m just being naive here, but what else can you do? xcancel was amazing and I hope they can continue in some way. But since…

I don't understand who all these people are who keep saying 'but I need twitter for my local politicians.' Like really? I have not followed any local politicians or authorities twitter and I still get relevant information. Believe it or not, which you might not if all you do is parrot these comments and I have seen this very comment line of thinking parroted for YEARS about twitter, most people do not follow the city…

The current American government is basically entirely comprised of people who were terminally online on Twitter and communicating with the right politicians - those people got everything they wanted. This seems like evidence that it actually does matter.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#516

Post by immibis2 »

aperrien wrote: post #489
bpt3 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your utility will post a highly localized service outage that might only affect 1 block of a city or less to their world facing twitter feed? And not simply alert customers via their phone on file as they've done for me forever? It doesn't match your very contrived example specifically, but yes essential services in my major metropolitan area provide more useful and timely information via twitter/X than other sourc…

Is it possible to help or encourage our local municipal services to have either an RSS or BlueSky feed? At this point, it's becoming apparent that putting all the information eggs in the twitter basket is/was a bad idea. This is a place where open source standards should shine.

The most practical way would probably be to create that feed yourself based on their Twitter feed. You could automate it using some Nitter-like service (please do not scrape public Nitters, but you can run your own Nitter and scrape it as you like). It is generally easier to do something like this yourself than to convince someone else, who does not care at all, to do it. I don't know how you would advertise it.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#517

Post by brushfoot »

immibis2 wrote: post #324
Klonoar wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scraping is legal, but IIRC scraping authenticated contents is not. Isn't Nitter abusing account sign-in for this?

Anyone can make an account, though, and instantly access that content, so Elon doesn't really have any leg to stand on by claiming they're private. It's not the same as Cambridge Analytica scraping stuff you had to have certain privileges to see by tricking the system into granting those privileges.

Not true. Creating an account requires agreeing to the ToS. And if the ToS prohibit this kind of usage, then legally, it's not allowed.

See hiQ Labs vs. LinkedIn. hiQ was scraping LinkedIn using accounts, and they were found to be in breach of LinkedIn's terms.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#518

Post by immibis2 »

nkozyra wrote: post #468
ndiddy wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what Twitter's specific reasons are, but AFAIK the general trend of login-walling services over the past few years has happened due to a court decision saying that it's legal to scrape publicly available data ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiQ_Labs_v._LinkedIn ). If they gate content behind a login wall and put a clause in the EULA forbidding scraping, this lets them use the CFAA to go after anybody who…

Effectively it forces scrapers to become a party to the terms of service, which usually contains the "no programmatic access (other than via paid API)" or specifically prohibits automated scraping.

Breaking terms of service isn't a crime, at least, although the company is legally permitted to retaliate against it, such as by banning you.

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#519

Post by immibis2 »

stymaar wrote: post #512
nkozyra wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can an automated process be a party in the terms of services though? If it's auth-gated, it needs to be, well, authenticated. The person who provides that, and the subsequent automated scraping, is the party, and would be the recipient of a civil suit.

> If it's auth-gated, it needs to be, well, authenticated. AFAIK, there isn't an single auth scheme on earth that guarantee human intervention[1]. Anyone can set-up a robot creating new users on a whim using single-use email addresses and even phone numbers. In fact, we know that OpenAI's agent have been doing exactly that when attacking Rubygem. And all AI labs are likely doing it for scrapping social media as well.…

By setting that up, you take on the liability for it. The defendant is whoever set it up. No different from "if I roll a car down a hill and it hits something at the bottom, how can you hold the car liable?"

Re: XCancel service is suspended until further notice

#520

Post by natch »

pino83 wrote: post #501
kijashdkujdfhas wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like to be reminded that they're hanging out at the Nazi Bar. Standing outside and looking through the Nazi Bar's window is still pretty much hanging out at the Nazi Bar. It still brings traffic and attention to their establishment. Sure, it's not buying drinks from the Nazis, and that is an improvement over being inside and giving Nazis your money and engagement directly. But it's still hanging out at t…

Yes, I like the analogy. Even if you don't agree with "Nazi", it makes the illustration quite obvious: There is a bar that scares you off so much that you wouldn't even go in. So there must be something fundamentally wrong with it. It's not just not your favorite beer, but you absolutely avoid even to enter . There must be a strong reason for that, right? What people are then important enough to watch through the win…

Very well reasoned and it fits a long evolved pattern but what you’re describing fits the mass sociopathic behavior called shunning, as engaged in by some religions like JW if you need a neutral example to think about. It is in no way good for society or for individuals in the long term.
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