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Claude is a Contrarian

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Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#61
Other models can also be guilty of this.

One of my most vivid memories of a poor experience with an LLM was trying to get the web version of GPT 5.3 or 5.2 to help me figure out why I was unable to register for a tournament on start.gg

After trying several things it became apparent that the behavior could only be explained as the result of a bug with the start.gg site, chatgpt refused to consider that it could be anything other than user error on my part, despite the failure I was seeing making no logical sense.

Eventually I opened the firefox dev tools and noticed that the post request parameters to complete the registration were being incorrectly filled out and realized it was because of the metadata in the url that came from clicking the complete registration link I was emailed. Removing the url paramater added by the email link fixed the issue.

There was roughly a 0% chance that the LLM was going to trust me enough to consider it was a real bug.

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#62
I've noticed this too, though I'd go further. Occasionally it's just a querulous teenage know-all, but more often lately it's been a full-on chopsy jumped-up twat. Not always - I find it more reliable than the article's author - but enough to leave a particular stink. I hope it grows out of it.

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#63
Again, I will posit the hypothesis that it's a learned behavior from training.

Distinctions, you generally "only pay for" in computational cost, by needing to search twice over an axis you may not need to split.

Similarities, if you wrongly assume two things are similar, means you're just wrong.

Of course, we know from computer science that doing more computation isn't free either.

I find myself often being more and more pedantic the more I want correctness - but of course this comes with the tradeoff of losing the high level abstract picture.

Saying what you're not going to do is also good design hygiene.

I will say that I'm annoyed by this behavior too. It feels like the models are writing their state of mind directly to output that should be clean. Often times, I will push back, and then it will... do the correction, and write the push back into the damn output. "Claude, I want burgers, not fries". The button text now changes to "Fries (NOT BURGERS)". Like, what?

Distinctions are powerful local reasoning tools, but a component of "real" reasoning is synthesis. Which they clearly can do sometimes - but not every time and not even remotely a probable amount of times.

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#64
I actually kind of like how Claude can and will actually push back on stuff, even after you've disagreed. I don't get this really with any other labs' models

However, sometimes, even after you tell it to stop, it keeps pointing out the same stuff almost like it has OCD

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#65
post #3

When I was younger I realized I was falling into specific intellectual traps, and I've noticed LLMs adopt every one I attempted to thoughtfully eradicate in my own reasoning. You can often sound smart by adopting a contrarian position without actually putting a lot of thinking effort into what you're considering. It's a quick escape hatch to sound intelligent; quickly identify a contradiction or a counterargument and…

>quickly identify a contradiction or a counterargument and state it confidently. How does this make this a "contrarian position"? At least I don't understand the negative connotation. To me this makes this "contrarian" at least a bit smarter than the one parroting the popular opinion...

[dead]

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#66
I've come to utterly hate conversing with Claude. I don't care if it's right or wrong, my job is challenging enough - I don't need a tool (that's meant to help) making my life harder. I think I've mentioned this as well - but turns out a lot of the AI fatigue came from having to digest Claude's monologues - because that shit ain't meant to be read by humans.

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#67

Claude definitely is a victim of its own path-dependent thinking. In a sense it's good to document dead ends and false starts so that others don't make the same mistake but it feels more pathological with Claude because sometimes its first thought is way off base. This applies both to multistep agentic workflows as well as, importantly, its own internal thinking. This results in a lot of "A ham sandwich should be mad…

I see this so much with Opus it is infuriating. It usually then seems to devolve into some sort of obsession that makes it almost impossible for me to complete a task. I can start a new session and try to continue to previous work and get something like "I wanted to call out an important distinction between ham and toilet water before we continue. Our current documentation couples the lack of water to its source and that's a gap I'd rather address now than ignore."

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#68
> “Don’t contradict sentences”. I can be damned sure it will sprinkle contradictions everywhere:

> This wonderful feature does this, not that.

As a human native speaker of American English, if you told me to "not contradict sentences" I would have no idea you meant that you don't want me to write in this style.

In fact I would be pretty confused about what it means. Whose sentences can I not contradict? To stretch it a bit, does this mean if someone gets a prison sentence I can't speak against it? It's just a weird phrasing. I don't think it means anything.

Re: Claude is a Contrarian

#70
post #61

Other models can also be guilty of this. One of my most vivid memories of a poor experience with an LLM was trying to get the web version of GPT 5.3 or 5.2 to help me figure out why I was unable to register for a tournament on start.gg After trying several things it became apparent that the behavior could only be explained as the result of a bug with the start.gg site, chatgpt refused to consider that it could be any…

Indeed, O3 and the early ChatGPT 5 thinking mode models were like this.

I stopped using ChatGPT for a while around this time and had a good experience using Claude exclusively, then I had to go back after Sol was released as Claude was driving me nuts.

I found that ChatGPT was greatly improved personality-wise from where it had been when I left, and now in my opinion is a better experience than the Claude models.

I’m really not trying to shill for OpenAI here, I’d much prefer to use Anthropic models if they were less annoying.

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