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New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

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Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#181

Nobody is willing to state this but it’s pretty clear if you look at the way officials behind the policy talk: they’re OK with this. They don’t mind economic harm. The purpose has nothing to do with protecting workers and everything to do with creating a more ethnically homogenous country.

May I give a more balanced perspective here while acknowledging that there are bad actors with malign incentives on both sides of this debate?

I think we should all be able to agree that in the limit both sides of this debate are wrong, and therefore what we are arguing here is where the balance is whether this fee helps strike the right balance.

A nation cannot simply open its labour market up to the most qualified workers in the world and not have most of the best job openings going to foreigners. This is simply just a matter of numbers and probability. If you're very skilled already, then you may not see this as a problem, but if you're just coming out of education looking for a skilled job and must compete with the the entire world for a decent job in your own country, you might feel this isn't a great deal.

Similarly, a nation which does not accept any foreign talent, regardless of what those individuals can provide clearly harms that nation's own economic growth potential, and ultimately longer-term that costs everyone.

Maybe some people disagree, but it seems obvious to me that a nation somewhat owes its best jobs to its own citizens, and it should seek to have labour markets which are tight enough that employees will be occasionally incentivised to hire someone fresh out of education and train them up to be able to work high-skilled and well-paid jobs, rather than simply taking the easy option of hiring someone from abroad.

However, sometimes training someone isn't feasible. From time to time a company may really need talent and is simply unable to reasonably train or source that domestically regardless of the salary they might offer. If this is the case then they should of course be welcome to hire foreign workers, but there should be a financial disincentive to this so that companies are always incentivised to first look for workers domestically.

So I must admit I struggle a bit to understand the opposition to this $100k fee. If this causes talent to be lost then the assumption that they are extremely valuable surely must be wrong?

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#182

Canada is jumping on this opportunity to invite the US tech workers who are frustrated with US H1B visa restrictions and GC backlog by offering an express permanent residency in 10 days https://canadabychoice.com/services/move-to-canada/usa/occup... Canada also floating idea of alliance with Europe for travel and job opportunities https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-european-union-eu-me...

Canada historically is also one of the worst places to work in tech. Maybe it’s changed but I remember a decade ago tech jobs were paying a 1/4th of what they were in NYC/SF.

[deleted]

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#183
post #10
post #2

Not surprising, H1B for my entire career was a cost cutting measure. Every time we had a layoff some portion would be replaced with H1B. Every H1B that shared their salary with me has been underpaid. I know its anecdotal but sharing to see if anyone has seen similar.

H1B should have never been a lottery. It should be a stack rank by salary to deal with the over subscription.

> It should be a stack rank by salary to deal with the over subscription

Considering salary based on country of origin, adjusted for position, would probably be the best way to ensure little abuse (apart from the indentured servitude-like features). If you want to hire the best, they'll be overpaid in their origin markets.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I’m more open to this kind of H1B use, you all should be investing in training local talent as well. Ideally using those H1Bs to train local talent. We put people on the moon. I find it hard to believe the people here lack the raw ability. I find it much more likely businesses don’t want to give back to the country that they’re residing in.

"We put people on the moon." using german nazi scienties, which is irony since they are definition of immigrant

Yes, there’s a great story about von Braun training a local American. Using imported talent to the benefit of Americans is good.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#185
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the salary weighted lottery today is a good step in the right direction IMO.

I think it has to be by industry and role. Software, mechanical engineering, teaching, medicine, etc are all very different

It needs to compensate for country and position.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian salaries are terrible once you realize that the cost of living in Canada is just as high or even higher than the US, which is why a lot of Canadian engineers left for the US

its a matter of building a sustaining tech ecosystem: colleges, employers, investors ecosystem. Once they figure out the ecosystem Canada can arbitrage away the broken US immigration policies and anti-immigrant bigotry. Just as manufacturing jobs in heartland have left US for Asia, so do tech jobs can leave US for Canada, India and elsewhere

The us is not anti-immigrant, it accepts massive numbers of immigrants every year. It would be below sustainable birthrate without it.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm generally pretty pro-immigration and I'm very anti-H1B. It's very abusive to the workers hired as H1-B and it's designed for wage suppression. You can stay an H1-B for years. If you lose your job, you'll face deportation. It gives your employer a VERY large amount of leverage over your life. It's supposed to be about bringing expertise when local expertise isn't available, but in practice it's companies say…

They’re doing the opposite and floating the idea of making the program more coercive by ending the grace period to find a new job, so that essentially ICE could wait outside an office after layoffs and start cuffing people. This is because “protecting workers” is a pretext and not their actual goal.

No. The fees definitely slow down the companies from trying to hire cheap replacements. Yes, the end of a grace period does make things tougher for people in a bad job, but I think the goal is really to end these bad jobs.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#189
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the fallacy of inventing a hypocrite by combining individual opinions from multiple people. Not one single tech person I know in person has ever been "pro immigration" or "anti immigration". They all want reasonable immigration , and part of that has always meant not harming the livelihoods of existing citizens. That's the subjective part. Edit: This is also a good example of the problem where we assume a per…

I've seen the whole "nobody is illegal" be quite a popular sentiment in recent years and that (when talking about the US) that as long as they're ok people, they should be let in, seemingly oblivious to the incredibly strict US visa requirements for people from Europe etc. I'm sure this is at least partly a case of the loud minority, but it's hard to tell sometimes

> oblivious to the incredibly strict US visa requirements for people from Europe etc.

Their strange notions of what democracy looks like might feel dangerous to the current government.

Re: New $100k H-1B visa fee pushes tech jobs offshore

#190

Canada is jumping on this opportunity to invite the US tech workers who are frustrated with US H1B visa restrictions and GC backlog by offering an express permanent residency in 10 days https://canadabychoice.com/services/move-to-canada/usa/occup... Canada also floating idea of alliance with Europe for travel and job opportunities https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-european-union-eu-me...

Canada historically is also one of the worst places to work in tech. Maybe it’s changed but I remember a decade ago tech jobs were paying a 1/4th of what they were in NYC/SF.

I've been working in Canada for US companies for decades, and pay-wise, it's gotten a lot better, though there's still a big difference. Never been tempted to move though.
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