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People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

dailyneuron.com

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Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#41

Aphantasia is fake. I can “see” when dreaming, ergo the brain simply (adaptively) suppresses the same when awake.

The most important thing to remember when discussing this stuff is that how you experience reality can be drastically different from other humans.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a musician, but don't "hear" music in my head. I have an extensive memory of lyrics, and can guess the next notes of a song, but I use my inner monologue to sing or hum it in my head, I don't hear it. I can recall the visuals of a movie scene similar to how I can tell you how my office is organized. It is a spatial memory of where things are and aligned with each other. I don't replay the scene in any sense of th…

> I use my inner monologue to sing or hum it in my head, I don't hear it Wdym? I think that the inner monologue is "hearing it", with a varying degree of vividness between people, of course.

Some people hear it more like a recording.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#43
post #3

Aphantasiac here, happy to discuss or answer any questions

1. Can't remember which way you came from just after a few mins of passing the same street. 2. Can't recollect your mother's face by closing your eye, but can recognize when you see. 3. Don't remember faces unless seen them for many times. 4. Can remember a favorite color. 5. Don't have a consistent handwriting.

Do these symptoms count?

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#44
post #38

The article is only about the absence of mental images, but the same is true for all other senses as well. People might be able to recall or imagine images, sounds, smells, tastes, feels while being awake or not. And it can be in all permutations, tho, vision affected seems to be quite common.

the only internal sense I have is my own voice. I cant even "imagine" music but rather hum it in my own voice at best. Same with others' voices

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#45
post #3

Aphantasiac here, happy to discuss or answer any questions

When you look at something and close your eyes, do you also not "see it" immediately after?

The image? no - the after image of the light on my retina, yes. But as soon as that fades there is nothing

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#46
post #2

Rather unfortunate if so, as aphantasia has been known about since Galton discovered it in 1880.

That's not really what the article is about: "Patients whose primary visual cortex was destroyed can still imagine, so the old idea of imagination as reversed seeing fails."

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#47
post #3

Aphantasiac here, happy to discuss or answer any questions

When you close your eyes, can you make any visualization whatsoever? Not the press-fingers-into-eyes stuff nor from-memory visualization, but just anything. When I close mine, I can let my brain wander with little intention/feedback and my mind will create giant megastructures that I kinda sorta fly through. It's fully continuous almost like I'm zooming into a fractal.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#48

I’ve worked as a professional photographer for twenty years and I visualize absolutely zero with my eyes closed. It’s only recently that I learned of aphantasia. Even on most psychedelic journeys I don’t have closed eye visuals, NN-DMT being the consistent exception. Everything is more of just a “knowingness”.

What’s it like to dream while you’re sleeping? Do you ever “see” anything then?

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#49
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I use my inner monologue to sing or hum it in my head, I don't hear it Wdym? I think that the inner monologue is "hearing it", with a varying degree of vividness between people, of course.

Some people hear it more like a recording.

Yeah, I can do that, but I think it is the same thing on a spectrum, just like the visual imagination.

Re: People who can't picture anything are rewriting the science of imagination

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is cope to avoid the realization that some people are walking around with drastically different life experiences.

I think a lot of people that can "see" in their mind are over-estimating their ability and a lot of people who can't are under-estimated their ability. It's probably a spectrum like a lot of things are, except in this case it is exceptionally hard to to know where you fall on it. The gap may not be as wide as it sounds. Almost everyone is still a functioning thinking human afterall. If the gap were so wide it seems l…

I hesitate to come to this conclusion.

When I was a kid, I could visualize things so vividly, I could almost overlay the visual signal onto my real visual field.

The visual cortex signal was "loud" enough that I could trick the propioceptive parts of my brain.

E.g. I could visualize falling so vividly that I would actually feel the stomach drop sensation.

As I get older, I still have a very visual mind, but not nearly what I used to have as a kid. It also feels more "far away" from my actual visual field.

Though some days if I'm stressed, I don't seem to have as much control/access to the visual side of things.

So I kinda get where aphantashisa people come from.

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