Are Rails and Django communities re-inventing the wheel? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are Rails and Django communities re-inventing the wheel?

#21

Post by spobo » Wed, Dec 26, 2012, 2:22 PM UTC

dknight wrote: post #20

benhoskins wrote: post #15

Seems to be missing the obvious; ruby and python (with some framework sugar) will mostly allow you there quicker than writing java with its framework sugar. I guess the trade off is rather quick to write as opposed to quick to execute. Interestingly, i also hear my colleagues say this about C and Java. Seems to be a recurring question of human understanding vs machine, no?

Wow. I am interested to know how C is reinventing the wheel. Do tell us more about it.

I think he's saying Java is recreating what C made.I don't agree since Java allows writing of code at a higher level. (with a garbage collector etc)

Every programming language sort of recreates the basics. They are the basics after all. The neat programming languages/frameworks are the ones that 'reinvent' something. Do something in a completely new way. On a programminglanguage-level it's difficult. A lot of the practices were already invented in early languages like lisp, eifel & smalltalk.

I like Ruby because it's not ashamed of taking the great parts from other programming languages and putting it together in an easily understandable language.

Re: Are Rails and Django communities re-inventing the wheel?

#22

Post by axlerunner » Wed, Dec 26, 2012, 3:18 PM UTC

The latest Java/Spring/JEE platforms are much more lightweight than they were 5 years ago. Look at annotated JAX-RS and you'll be amazed. You defectors should really give it a objective try. Nowadays us Java guys can focus on building our applications because our frameworks and APIs are so mature.

Re: Are Rails and Django communities re-inventing the wheel?

#23

Post by benhoskins » Wed, Dec 26, 2012, 4:40 PM UTC

spobo wrote: post #21

dknight wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I am interested to know how C is reinventing the wheel. Do tell us more about it.

I think he's saying Java is recreating what C made.I don't agree since Java allows writing of code at a higher level. (with a garbage collector etc) Every programming language sort of recreates the basics. They are the basics after all. The neat programming languages/frameworks are the ones that 'reinvent' something. Do something in a completely new way. On a programminglanguage-level it's difficult. A lot of the pra…

Nope, i'm saying is that the more you abstract and take out of the way of the coder, the quicker they can write code. Java did this to C type languages, and people got quicker. Ruby and python did this to Java. But the inverse im often told by my C colleagues is that the abstraction means you fundamentally lose control of performance. I don't agree with this statement, but what I do agree with is that if you want high level, human oriented lprogramming languages that you can quickly write code in, you need to solve very similar problems

Re: Are Rails and Django communities re-inventing the wheel?

#24

Post by vampirechicken » Fri, Dec 28, 2012, 6:22 PM UTC

camus wrote: post #16

vampirechicken wrote: post #10

> Models are intended to serve only as an abstraction to the database. > They are meant to be 'models of data'. TL;DR: MVC Model is Logical model - business object (invoice) with business logic (delete_line_item), Rails Model is Physical model - persistence layer for RDBMS (add, update, delete, find rows). In all but the most trivial applications, the latter assertion contradicts the former, and the former, is just o…

mew , we all lived the Java/JEE nightmare , and pragmatic programmers got us out of that mess, with no desire to go back to that stuff. I'll take ruby/active record flaws over the "bloated and unecessary entreprise pattern" code anytime.

How did J2EE become a night mare. It was pretty clear to me that you put your business logic in session beans, and they manipulated entity beans along the way.