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Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

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Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#141

Post by sandworm101 »

bitparadox wrote: post #34

I posted a flavor of this comment on an article a few months ago, but it's relevant here: I have a seven year old Volkswagen, not financed. I'm security conscious and made sure to disable all the data collection I could find in the companion app before removing my account, turn off remote access services, dig through the infotainment to turn off what I could, etc. Last year I requested a Carfax on it, and one of the…

Where was the car serviced? Antennas or not, the dealer might just plug in and upload everything during service.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#142

Post by wcunning »

bitparadox wrote: post #34

I posted a flavor of this comment on an article a few months ago, but it's relevant here: I have a seven year old Volkswagen, not financed. I'm security conscious and made sure to disable all the data collection I could find in the companion app before removing my account, turn off remote access services, dig through the infotainment to turn off what I could, etc. Last year I requested a Carfax on it, and one of the…

Lots of automotive OEMs want that specific kind of information for generic reasons (how many of what model made it to what mileage under what circumstances) that are entirely reasonable. Lots of them also want that info for warranty related reasons (you've hit the mileage limit and we won't do anything for you anymore). But, my state of Michigan is starting a program to evaluate replacing registration fees with mileage charges to account for the additional wear and tear on the roads from EVs that don't pay gas taxes to fund road repairs. This would require some kind of verification of mileage, which we can't currently do during emissions testing, since it doesn't exist here. Legally required data retention is becoming a bigger and bigger issue, particularly in light of the driver monitoring requirement starting in MY27 vehicles by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act terms. That will presumably be integrated into any black box recording in a crash and probably subpoenaed in any dispute going forward.

In other news, I think I'll be taking a trip to somewhere down south to find a nice, used 1999 F350 dually with a manual transmission, since they're going to cease to exist shortly...

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#143

Post by baby_souffle »

sandworm101 wrote: post #141
bitparadox wrote: post #34

I posted a flavor of this comment on an article a few months ago, but it's relevant here: I have a seven year old Volkswagen, not financed. I'm security conscious and made sure to disable all the data collection I could find in the companion app before removing my account, turn off remote access services, dig through the infotainment to turn off what I could, etc. Last year I requested a Carfax on it, and one of the…

Where was the car serviced? Antennas or not, the dealer might just plug in and upload everything during service.

> Antennas or not, the dealer might just plug in and upload everything during service.

You should have an empty glovebox as well when you take it in for service if you don't trust the shop.

If you have registration / insurance paperwork, you're now on that shop's mailing list and can expect to get "$15 off your next oil change ..." flyers in the mail.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#144

Post by jboggan »

derwiki wrote: post #19
cc62cf4a4f20 wrote: post #4

That‘ll happen when you don‘t have meaningful data protection laws.

Can I invoke CCPA to get a report of and/or delete my data?

You can invoke CCPA (if applicable) and directly ask a covered business or registered data broker for an exact output of your existing information on their systems. This is honestly rare and most companies will find ways to deny you - asking for various documents to prove your identity and hoping you quit responding.

If you are a CA resident you can also get on the state's DROP platform to request that all registered data brokers delete your data, but it's only for deletion and not the other 4 types of data requests allowed under the CCPA (right to know, right to collect, right to opt out, and right to limit use).

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#145

Post by baby_souffle »

10000truths wrote: post #72
vikingerik wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it would need is a wi-fi antenna internally, and then it could connect to an open wi-fi network anywhere. And it's going to be pretty much impossible to avoid ever driving your car within range of some open network.

It would have to find an open Wi-Fi network that isn't gated behind a captive portal, which is very rare. Rare enough that most telemetry would be too stale to be useful.

> which is very rare.

This depends a lot on the region/country. IN the US, open WiFi is unusual but it's pretty common in parts of asia, for example.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#146

Post by octoberfranklin »

mannanj wrote: post #117

And the DMV (Department of Motor vehicle Services) has also sold registration data. In California, and Texas, they have been fined for this - I'm unsure they aren't completely barred from using a loophole to still do that. This is why I'm a vocal advocate for having an LLC own any vehicles you might drive. It protects you from the license-plate reading lookup as well from Flock et all. Though I don't know it guarante…

It won't protect you from the insurance agencies; they demand a DL ID# and a VIN. And you are required by law to purchase from them.

And they're stautorily exempted from a whole boatload of privacy laws, like HIPAA.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#147

Post by jboggan »

I'd like to point out that the CA assembly has passed AB-1542 and it is likely going to be signed by the governor this week. This would make the sale and sharing of "sensitive" personal information illegal, and one of the sensitive personal categories is geolocation data that can map an individual to within a 1850-ft radius.

In my understanding, this pretty much makes this type of driver data illegal to sell or share. CalPrivacy's enforcement division has their eye on connected car manufacturers already, so we'll see what they do with that.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billHistoryClient.x...

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#148

Post by amelius »

kulahan wrote: post #85
amelius wrote: post #32

How is this not stealing? I'm going to pirate shit until this is fixed.

You’re going to steal in response to stealing…? Unless you’re of the opinion that since it’s data, it’s not stealing?

No, this is mostly out of activism. I'm angry that the law is there for one group while the rights of another group are completely neglected. That it gives me free content is just a nice side-effect, nothing more.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#149

Post by wkjagt »

hbarka wrote: post #122
wkjagt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife's Ioniq 5 was hit on the bumper while it was parked. Took weeks for all parts to get to the dealer and cost thousands of dollars because sensors etc. if someone hit my 1981 Volvo 240 the same way I'm not even sure it would cause any noticable damage.

Today’s cars are safer because of the crumple zones. We romanticize the older cars but their rigidity also caused impact force to be absorbed by occupants.

You're right that today's cars are safer, but the Volvo 240 does have crumple zones. It was considered the safest car of its time actually

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#150

Post by hdgvhicv »

taraindara wrote: post #88
aceazzameen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've become cell phones on wheels. I'm disappointed with what vehicles (and phones too!) have become.

I share the sentiment. I want a new car, but only if I can guarantee all telemetry is hard disabled. But I don’t have the kind of money to buy a new car and risk bricking it. Luckily I’m pretty handy, so I’ll have to keep my 2014< cars forcefully running as long as I can.

I have non concerns about having a built in button to phone emergency services. I don’t even mind if it auto rings in a crash. I’m even happy to provide position to the emergency service in the event of dialing them.

Manufacturers use this capacity as an excuse to push more adtech penny and dime data abuse, knowing half the world will blame the government.

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