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Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

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Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#121

Post by mannanj »

pnw wrote: post #73
skrause wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want a car that doesn't collect the data, not one that gives a pinky promise not to sell still collected data.

When given the choice between privacy and convenience, the great majority of consumers choose convenience over and over again. I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's not going to be market based if you look at any recent trends. Interest in privacy is unfortunately a niche concern outside of places like HN. Anyone who has tried to market a privacy oriented product knows what I am talking about.

Is it that the friction to use privacy is too high and not that interest in privacy is actually a niche concern?

I imagine its friction and not indicative of interest itself.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#122

Post by hbarka »

wkjagt wrote: post #29
everyone wrote: post #5

Another reason to use a car from 90's or 2000's.. Also they wont burn oil like a modern car + more durable and repairable metal parts. https://youtu.be/Ft12aZffCEg?si=qP1J5k6RXAxmZChf https://youtu.be/SeMZGICNSMg?si=-YLnt5Q477xpFbra https://youtu.be/8Kp108x4tQA?si=j7JV-_Dpl5afP99F

My wife's Ioniq 5 was hit on the bumper while it was parked. Took weeks for all parts to get to the dealer and cost thousands of dollars because sensors etc. if someone hit my 1981 Volvo 240 the same way I'm not even sure it would cause any noticable damage.

Today’s cars are safer because of the crumple zones. We romanticize the older cars but their rigidity also caused impact force to be absorbed by occupants.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#123

Post by [deleted] »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #94
10000truths wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have to find an open Wi-Fi network that isn't gated behind a captive portal, which is very rare. Rare enough that most telemetry would be too stale to be useful.

Cable ISPs such as Spectrum sell capacity on their customers routers for such situations, including ‘smart’ appliances.

[deleted]

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#124

Post by retardlocator »

natch wrote: post #20
tomrod wrote: post #6

How can this be stopped, from a technical perspective? Can I wrap the comms in a Faraday cage? Obviously it would be better to have this action be illegal. But with legal privacy protections eroding in the US and other countries, it seems prudent to have a better understanding of the systems involved in the immoral surveillance.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#125

Post by calvinmorrison »

tomrod wrote: post #62
calvinmorrison wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think right-to-repair intersects with cars? An obvious thing may be to say the software must be published or the spec released, but we've had computers in cars since the 80s. It seems like a tall task but people can and do reverse engineer entire ECU systems (See Trionic Tuning) Another seemingly very obvious one - requiring manufacturers to publish specifications regarding ALL OBD interface options. Of co…

> How do you think right-to-repair intersects with cars? Strongly. You don't own the thing you purchased if you can't legally repair it or legally obtain the knowledge to repair it. At beat you're paying an overpriced lease and granting a liability waiver.

I tend to agree. In my mind, it would be pretty cost efficient to put a builtin- system diagnostic utility in all new vehicles that provide at least moderately good tooling for the ODB. T

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#126

Post by SirHackalot »

qwerpy wrote: post #112
SirHackalot wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That’s a lot of words coming from a very angry place. Frankly I’m surprised and disappointed that this hasn’t been flagged yet.

Found the Musk Stan. It’s perfectly fine to be angry with a political trillionaire who did all of the aforementioned things. Keep being disappointed, that’s going to be your natural state when this dust settles.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#128

Post by toomuchtodo »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #94
10000truths wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have to find an open Wi-Fi network that isn't gated behind a captive portal, which is very rare. Rare enough that most telemetry would be too stale to be useful.

Cable ISPs such as Spectrum sell capacity on their customers routers for such situations, including ‘smart’ appliances.

Xfinity (Comcast) does the same, and the LG TV data leak demonstrated it joining these open “xfinitywifi” SSIDs to transmit telemetry home (edit: retracted, see below subthread).

You can see a map of these nodes with https://wigle.net/

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#129

Post by snypher »

jasonjayr wrote: post #118
drnick1 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> turn off remote access services, dig through the infotainment to turn off what I could This is never enough. You can't trust a software switch. You need to remove the hardware capability if you want to make sure the car isn't spying on you. In the best case, the telematics box has it's own fuse, and that may be enough. In other cases, you need to find the box and unplug it. The service manual will have it's locatio…

Find the telematic's antenna, and put a 50ohm resistor across it. It can scream into it's own private void.

I Have No Antenna, and I Must Transmit.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#130

Post by samsullivan »

e40 wrote: post #105
samsullivan wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mileage went from VW->telematics vendor->broker->carfax, thats the chain it usually follows. The fuse stops it but the real issue is the owner is the only one without the record. You could probably find some interesting info if you send out some privacy requests through the chain. LexisNexis and Verisk are consumer reporting agencies, so they have to provide you a disclosure on request. Start there.

Is there usually a fuse that just turns off the telemetry? I would be surprised if that is the case. I could see the design being "if you turn this fuse off to turn off telemetry, you'll also lose these functions: ..." and if they did it "right" they'd make the car non-functional. My car is from 2011 and I do wonder if there is any telemetry in it.

Telemetry is usually a standalone module. Heres one off a 26 Hyundai Palisade -- Telematics (DCU) Part num: 96510P9100 firmware (OTA updatable) 01F.7.CAN.3.000.18.714.9

Its only job is to detect harsh acceleration and brake events. Probably being sold to your insurer.

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