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Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

english.martinvarsavsky.net

41–50 of 160 posts

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#41
What strikes me about this article is the utter lack of understanding.

It is a highly subjective, very politicized and ideologically tainted description without any kind of understanding, and some of the attempts at interpretation of cultural and legal differences are either plain wrong or deliberately misrepresented.

It's an anti-European rant, nothing more. Here's a great gem for example:

"To work hard, to work long hours, is actually illegal in Europe."

Seriously.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#42
There's some light and some shadow in this article. I can't tell about southern europe, but most of this does not apply in germany - even the parts that are specifically about germany. There are recommendations about how a work-place should look like but they are mostly common sense [1] and not mandated by law, at least not in the IT Business. There is a law about workplace safety [2] but that's like 12 pages long and enforces very basic limits: You must have toilets, sufficient lighting, sufficient heating and the escape routes must not be blocked. If you feel like you can use your garage or your living room.

Bonus payments are no problem at all either. If you feel like paying a bonus, pay it. If you want to have a written formula, write it down in a contract - but then you need to pay it if the employee qualifies.

If your employee pretends to be sick, send him to the public health officer. If he isn't sick it's an immediate firing offense. Even verbally threatening to go on sick leave is an immediate firing offense.

Severance packages are not mandated. You can have them in a contract, but the default is no severance package. It's still somewhat harder to fire someone than in the USA since you need an actual reason to do so. "She's irresistible" won't do. [3] It's pretty common to have 3-6 month probation period in a contract where both parties can terminate the contract on short notice.

The part where he's right is extra work. The law is pretty strict here: 8 hours a day is the normal maximum, 10 hours a day for a limited time, maximum of 60 hours a week. There must be a 10 hour break between end of work and beginning on the next day. You can break those limits in emergencies, but you need a qualified reason. That sounds pretty harsh, but it's reasonable. It protects the employees on one side, but why would I want them to work more than 8 hours a day on a regular schedule when productivity drops sharp after 8, maximum 10 hours. We can do crunch time for a couple of weeks, but after that it just doesn't pay of. 12 hours a day are neither healthy for the employee nor for the startup. A team of zombies just doesn't perform. So I'm very little bothered by that law. Germany seems to be doing just fine productivity wise.

[1] The monitor should be placed parallel to the window to reduce reflections, the chair and the table must be adjustable in height, ... [2] http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bundesrecht/arbst_ttv_2004... [3] http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/22/us/iowa-irresistible-worke...

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#43
Even though most of the dismissal comments here are fair and true, I find that this article contains some true gems:

> When starting a company in the US, informality rules, we all know the HP story that HP was started out of a garage. Now in Europe work is so regulated that you can’t start a company out of a garage because you can’t legally work in a garage.

> A friend of mine was fed up with an employee who worked poorly and told him that if he didn’t work harder he would fire him. This employee went to see a doctor, told the doctor that work depressed him and he was declared a mental patient, as a result my entrepreneur friend had to pay him for a year of doing nothing.

As a European (Netherlands), I recognize these points very strongly. This is not just Southern European stuff. It's absolutely ridiculous how easily angry/unmotivated employees can suck a firm or department dry though sick leave and whatnot.

That said, there's also

> In the end what many European employers do is not give out stock options and give tiny bonuses. In the end what these laws do is that employers go for low fixed compensations and don’t expect outstanding work.

This is so American that it hurts: want people to perform? Put a carrot in front of their noses. The European approach would be trying to make their work interesting and the work environment good, so that employees are intrinsically motivated to do outstanding. Sure, there's many companies that don't understand this, but then there's real many that do. It is simply not a strong part of European culture to be motivated by money, primarily.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#44

> In most of Europe there is no concept of personal bankruptcy That's wrong. It only takes longer in most european countries. For example in Germany it takes 6 years.

I'm not certain about it but I think debts from criminal offenses are not cleared on personal bankruptcy. Sozialversicherungsbetrug (not paying your employees social security) and tax evasion are criminal offenses for the manager of a company so they'd not be cleared. However, if you start up a company with employees you'd want a limited liability company of some form anyways, so personal liability only extends to criminal negligence or criminal offenses. It's still easy enough to get burned and indebted as manager though.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#45
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, actually, in practice it's the other way round Because then the law (text) is usually more complicated, and the bureaucracy adds complexity to it.

But you don't have to have a list of all the previous verdicts, just the law book.

I'm really not sure what's the state of the art on verdict libraries is (or how it was done before), but as always I suppose most impacting results are more divulged.

But believe me "just the law book" is not as easy as it sounds.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#46
"the problem with this is that it is harder to convince a group of Europeans that they are out to conquer the world in their field. It is cultural."

It's called World War I and II, and having learned a thing or two. "Conquering the world" in itself is a phrase only an utter brute would think, much less actually brag about.

Why can you not get to know the world, and cooperate with it? What are you scared of? Why not be a peer amongst peers, who but a coward would want to be owner? Keep the crap that makes your country crap in that country kthx.. there is no point in moving to the EU if you're not going to actually learn from it.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#47
post #18
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't buy the notion that Europeans are generally resentful towards entrepreneurs.

It's most certainly true in France and I guess in other Latin countries.

So how did entrepreneurs like Sarkozy and Berlusconi ever get elected?

Get off it.

Entrepreneurs aren't worshiped like gods by default just for being entrepreneurs, that's all.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#48

Firing is not hard. When my country telecom was privatized and the contract limited the amount of layoffs they could legally make - they just put every parasite in his own room with no internet, no pc-s, totally forbidden to use personal devices and gave them no tasks. They were also under strict monitoring for misusing the company time(reading on work), phones and being strict on arrival/departure. The ones that did…

In the UK that would be interpreted as 'constructive dismissal' and you could be spanked pretty hard for that at an employment tribunal. Is it that hard to get rid of someone within the rules?

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#49
post #7

Article is ridden with errors, mostly based on a faulty premise. Europe is not a country. Europe isn't even the EU. Laws, regulations, attitudes and tax rates vary widely. If you want to do a startup in Europe, choose a country first and then read up.

What's worse, were it gets specific on country and regulation, it still gets it wrong, seemingly deliberate.

It's a political anti-regulation rant. Nothing more.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#50
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't buy the notion that Europeans are generally resentful towards entrepreneurs.

Personally I don't think people are resentful to entrepreneurs but it isn't glorified the way it is elsewhere. If I told an American friend I ran my own business they would usually be very interested and tell me how great that is. Most of the people I know (Europeans) tend to think of it as 'not a real job' and regular tell me 'I should get a real job'. These aren't people trying to hurt me, they legitimately believe…

Certainly, in British culture, hard work carries a certain amount of respect, and those who are perceived to have obtained wealth without putting the work in (as applies to many 'entrepreneurs') are absolutely resented.

Perhaps related is the fact ostentatious displays of wealth are generally frowned upon. In the US it seems fashionable for entrepreneurs to become fabulously wealthy, then flaunt their wealth as 'inspiration' to other would-be entrepreneurs. In Britain, if not the rest of Europe, this draws resentment more so than admiration.

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