Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 276 posts

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#101

Post by ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 »

kulahan wrote: post #85
amelius wrote: post #32

How is this not stealing? I'm going to pirate shit until this is fixed.

You’re going to steal in response to stealing…? Unless you’re of the opinion that since it’s data, it’s not stealing?

Maybe the poster is saying, "There are no consequences for anyone acting in this way here, and we seem to be slipping ever more into societal moral decay, so why shouldn't I cheat to win?"

Or: "All companies are essentially gigantic conglomerates eating each others' food by selling my own and others' data to each other, so I basically have rights to their claimed assets anyway."

Or: "No company or government respects my privacy or property rights, so why should I respect theirs?"

Some of that is a form of "I am going to steal, because others are stealing", and well, if stealing becomes the norm, yeah, I would say the comment has some validity in a few words for the common citizen.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#102

Post by base698 »

tomrod wrote: post #6

How can this be stopped, from a technical perspective? Can I wrap the comms in a Faraday cage? Obviously it would be better to have this action be illegal. But with legal privacy protections eroding in the US and other countries, it seems prudent to have a better understanding of the systems involved in the immoral surveillance.

You learn animal husbandry and join the Amish.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#103

Post by LoganDark »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #93
kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #37

In my GM car I have the wonderful opportunity to pull the OnStar fuse and disable all cellular connectivity. However, I am concerned the telematics information are stored in long term storage and if I have to reconnect the fuse, all my driving will be batch uploaded. I hope not!! And the GPS still works. Maybe I can find some dummy loads as well or the antennae. It's still better than other modern cars though? I thin…

If you are willing to lose GPS, maybe you could set the car's internal clock to the year 2000. This might fool a cursory data dump that is looking for "last three months of driving habits". Would obviously not stand up to any real scrutiny, but mostly painless.

GPS provides the time, so this probably won't work. If it ever reconnects it will just reset its clock. That's often one of the first things that any computer does after a long period of no power/connection.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#104

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

LoganDark wrote: post #103
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to lose GPS, maybe you could set the car's internal clock to the year 2000. This might fool a cursory data dump that is looking for "last three months of driving habits". Would obviously not stand up to any real scrutiny, but mostly painless.

GPS provides the time, so this probably won't work. If it ever reconnects it will just reset its clock. That's often one of the first things that any computer does after a long period of no power/connection.

I did say lose the GPS.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#105

Post by e40 »

samsullivan wrote: post #87
bitparadox wrote: post #34

I posted a flavor of this comment on an article a few months ago, but it's relevant here: I have a seven year old Volkswagen, not financed. I'm security conscious and made sure to disable all the data collection I could find in the companion app before removing my account, turn off remote access services, dig through the infotainment to turn off what I could, etc. Last year I requested a Carfax on it, and one of the…

Your mileage went from VW->telematics vendor->broker->carfax, thats the chain it usually follows. The fuse stops it but the real issue is the owner is the only one without the record. You could probably find some interesting info if you send out some privacy requests through the chain. LexisNexis and Verisk are consumer reporting agencies, so they have to provide you a disclosure on request. Start there.

Is there usually a fuse that just turns off the telemetry? I would be surprised if that is the case. I could see the design being "if you turn this fuse off to turn off telemetry, you'll also lose these functions: ..." and if they did it "right" they'd make the car non-functional.

My car is from 2011 and I do wonder if there is any telemetry in it.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#106

Post by LoganDark »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #104
LoganDark wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPS provides the time, so this probably won't work. If it ever reconnects it will just reset its clock. That's often one of the first things that any computer does after a long period of no power/connection.

I did say lose the GPS.

GP was talking about reconnecting the system. Is GPS separate?

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#107

Post by LoganDark »

heaney-555 wrote: post #99
otterley wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn’t it happen with them?

Tesla charges a $10/month subscription for its connected features, with relatively high uptake because its software is actually great (unlike the dogshit UX of most cars), so it doesn't need to sell data. Plus it just isn't how Tesla operates.

They may not sell the data, they just keep it for themselves. And Elon.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#108

Post by hn_submit »

Like I've said here before: we need to push for legislation that bans the sale of consumer data collected by websites and manufacturers to third-parties.

We need a solution, not a Band-Aid like the "Freedom Car Act." I believe that legislators are deliberately coming up with legislation that mildly hinders, but in no way resolves the issue in order to keep their sugar-daddies freewheeling.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#109

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

LoganDark wrote: post #106
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did say lose the GPS.

GP was talking about reconnecting the system. Is GPS separate?

The systems must be separate if they were able to disable some of the network connectivity but maintain GPS.

I thought GP was talking about if they had to reconnect the systems for some reason, would archived telemetry suddenly be uploaded. Which is a real possibility, so I was suggesting poisoning the data. Even if you correct the clock today, the previously recorded timestamps cannot be automatically fixed. Even better would be to reset the clock on every startup event.

Which is all still a band-aid solution - a targeted analysis could mostly correct the time-keeping. This just prevents getting scooped up in a simple drag net kind of search.

Re: Data collected by cars and sold to third parties

#110

Post by MarkusQ »

ellisv wrote: post #24
ryandrake wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does a car need "remote access" and to "receive updates?" I'd consider this a bonus side effect.

People who live in cold or hot places like to prestart the climate control in their car.

When I was a lad we walked out to the car and did that with the key. In the snow. It wasn't that bad and, despite what you may have heard, was not in fact uphill both ways.
Post reply on HN