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Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

english.martinvarsavsky.net

21–30 of 160 posts

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#21
Funny how he refers to Europe as a whole country...

> "Not only are forced severance pay packages a problem because most start ups fail and they still have to pay them but also because start ups are constantly trying out people and the concept of trying out people is very costly in Europe"

I've been an unpaid intern in UK. My first full-time job in Spain clearly stated that I was on trial for the first three months and after that they didn't have an obligation to hire me... Oh, if this guy wanted to try different people, he could hire them as freelancers.

> "In Spain, France, Italy, health care is free."

No, it's not. People are taxed...

> "You could argue that it is healthy to take sick days but unfortunately what happens here is that patients ask doctors medical justifications for paid job absences"

Probably there are a few cases like this. I don't see this guy complaining about how low salaries are in Spain.

> "In Europe there is a general belief that work is punishment and that the role of government is to protect people from overworking"

No there's not... People want to work and they want to have a life. I've worked in Spain, and the impression you get from the employers is that you have to thank them for giving you a job, in my job in US they thank me for being there and make sure I'm happy.

> "So there are many rules that make it hard to work the 12 hours per day that a start up may need in its initial months"

Yeah right. My manager in Spain used to tell us that we were in a project with a fixed deadline that had to be met, so if we had to work extra time including weekend we would...

> "To work hard, to work long hours, is actually illegal in Europe"

What does working hard have to do with working long hours?

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#22
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apply for a long stay visa with the Italian gov't

What are the requirements for this? Do you have to have a job or be a student or setup a company or ...?

http://www.esteri.it/MAE/EN/Ministero/Servizi/Stranieri/Ingr...

bad translation, but after entering Italy you can stay longer by proving you have the resources to stay there (like a longer tourism visa) (that's on that site somewhere, not on this page, but that's a starting point)

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#23
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apply for a long stay visa with the Italian gov't

What are the requirements for this? Do you have to have a job or be a student or setup a company or ...?

You have to become an expert in Italian bureaucracy. It's very difficult. You want to just talk to an Italian lawyer, pay them a bunch of money, and then wait a few years. Italy does not want skilled employees moving here. Well, they say they do, but they don't really act like it.

The easiest thing to do is get married, or find a company here willing to hire you.

BTW, not sure you'd enjoy the beaches in Italy much at this time of year - it might be getting up to 20C in Sicily soon, they say, but here in the north it's about 6C and foggy.

BTW, I see you are a 'designer/developer': the company I'm contracting for right now might actually be interested in someone like that. If you're interested, or if you just want to chat about Italy, you're welcome to drop me an email.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#24
post #10
post #6

I am not a fan of how he uses 'Europe' when he often means Spain and France. He clearly lacks an experience with Nordic countries (i.e. Scandinavia + Finland and Iceland), because a lot of what he says does not apply here. Working overtime is perfectly legal in Denmark for instance, if the employees prefer it (forcing them can be illegal). The reason is that in Denmark (and other Nordic countries), labour regulations…

Also the thing about lawyers being cheap is accurate, but this is because in Europe (except the UK and Ireland), we use a Civil Law system, whereas the US (whom borrowed it from the UK) uses a Common Law system. The basic difference is that in a Civil Law system 'the law is the law'; court rules cannot change law practice. In addition, you cannot use previous court decisions to argue in a court of law. You can use th…

Well, actually, in practice it's the other way round

Because then the law (text) is usually more complicated, and the bureaucracy adds complexity to it.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#25
post #14

I don't live in a country with the kind of employee protection rules as in Germany, but the article still comes off as a rant against employee protections. Can't afford to treat your employees like humans? Want to give them big bonuses and then fire them the following year so they can't pay the mortgage on that house they put a deposit down on with that bonus? Don't want to shell out a bit of money on decent offices,…

> Can't afford to treat your employees like humans? Want to give them big bonuses and then fire them the following year so they can't pay the mortgage on that house they put a deposit down on with that bonus? Don't want to shell out a bit of money on decent offices, and rather shove them in some little basement somewhere?

Isn't this something the market will mostly take care of, especially in tech where people can easily change jobs?

"Jobs for life" is a net negative in Italy: it keeps young people out of jobs, and it makes people hold on for dear life to jobs they hate and aren't great at just because they are Permanent Jobs. Far better to have a lot of flexibility, and state support for the unemployed, rather than turning employers into supporters of people they do not wish to employ.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#26
post #15
post #14

I don't live in a country with the kind of employee protection rules as in Germany, but the article still comes off as a rant against employee protections. Can't afford to treat your employees like humans? Want to give them big bonuses and then fire them the following year so they can't pay the mortgage on that house they put a deposit down on with that bonus? Don't want to shell out a bit of money on decent offices,…

I also don't buy the notion that Europeans are generally resentful towards entrepreneurs.

A ... well, I'm not going to get specific, as he's probably not too hard to locate via facebook or something, but a person I know through my wife was ranting about how all entrepreneurs are dishonest thieves at dinner the other day. Granted, this was an after-a-few-bottles-of-wine chat at the table, not a serious, reasoned opinion from someone who I do respect, but still, it's not an uncommon opinion here in Italy.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#27
post #2

I'd be living on a beach in Italy right now were it not for the visa situation. Anybody know a way around the 90-day rule for Americans?

Unfortunately I don't. It's pretty incredible how in a world of supposed free trade and globalisation we are prevented from freely trading our most valuable goods - our skills and knowledge and creativity.

Oh, I mentioned the money because Switzerland is a very expensive country to live in. Zurich, where I am from, was just "awarded" as the most expensive city in the world [1].

On the other hand wages in Switzerland are also among the highest in the world - it balances out. So if you want to work here just start applying. Google has its largest development office outside of the US here and a lot of companies have their European headquarters here and a lot of (former) startups are moving here too (e.g. Evernote [2] or Kayak [3]).

I am not saying Switzerland is the easiest country to get into to work but it is definitely possible and a lot of people do. Over 20% of residents are foreigners and I am very proud of that fact. So: If you have unique skills, knowledge and creativity you are definitely very welcome here and I guess in most parts of the world.

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-mon... [2] http://www.moneyhouse.ch/en/u/evernote_gmbh_CH-020.4.046.397... [3] http://www.kayak.de/contact

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#28
post #25
post #14

I don't live in a country with the kind of employee protection rules as in Germany, but the article still comes off as a rant against employee protections. Can't afford to treat your employees like humans? Want to give them big bonuses and then fire them the following year so they can't pay the mortgage on that house they put a deposit down on with that bonus? Don't want to shell out a bit of money on decent offices,…

> Can't afford to treat your employees like humans? Want to give them big bonuses and then fire them the following year so they can't pay the mortgage on that house they put a deposit down on with that bonus? Don't want to shell out a bit of money on decent offices, and rather shove them in some little basement somewhere? Isn't this something the market will mostly take care of, especially in tech where people can ea…

I somewhat agree; you basically need a middle ground. It shouldn't be too easy to fire people, but neither should it be too hard. I think what we have in my country (.dk) hits that middle ground fairly decently.

Re: Advice for US entrepreneurs who move to Europe

#29
On "Europe is not a country". 'Claro que no', but the same reaction every time to this sort of article gets a bit passe` as well. The author is clearly not just some bozo that moved to "Europe" a few months ago and is writing up his first impressions: he built some pretty serious companies here and obviously knows a thing or two that might be worth considering on its merits, despite the fact that, yes, things are a bit different in the Lofoten islands than in Pantelleria.
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