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Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

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Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#71

Post by neumann_alfred »

monochromatic wrote: post #42
w1ntermute wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another good one is the number of people that die in car accidents in the US every year, largely due to human error - 32,367 people in 2011. If the government took one tenth of the money it spends on defense every year (which was $1.030–$1.415 trillion for 2012), or approximately $100 billion dollars, and invested it in driverless car research and the infrastructure changes necessary for it, a much bigger benefit cou…

military-industrial complex Most of what you said is true enough, but this nonsense loses you credibility. It's like saying "it's the corporations , man."

How is this nonsense? How does personal credibility enter into it, anyway? Argue with the statement, but spare the ironical projecting (saying "mentioning this or that phrase makes anything you say suspect" IS actually like intellectually lazy slogans you pretend to be against)

The business of buying weapons that takes place in the Pentagon is a corrupt business - ethically and morally corrupt from top to bottom. The process is dominated by advocacy, with few, if any, checks and balances. Most people in power like this system of doing business and do not want it changed.

-- Colonel James G. Burton

A rose is a rose is a rose, and so is a turd; what labels you accept or don't is your personal thing, but otherwise irrelevant.

Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#72

Post by woah »

hrktb wrote: post #65
gnaritas wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree entirely, but looking at deaths prevented isn't really relevant. Terrorism isn't about death, it's about terror, putting people in a state of fear. The war on terror isn't about preventing death, it's about preventing fear. People aren't afraid of choking on peanut butter or car accidents because they feel they have some control over those situations. Terrorism creates fear by removing that sense…

In the "follow the money" line of thinking, looking at who takes most benefits from terrorism explains a lot of things. "Terrorists" didn't get much I think. Politicians, law makers, government agencies got to push forward their agenda by leaps and bounds.

Hmmm... I kinda wonder sometimes. This is a ludicrous idea, but have you ever thought about the recent HSBC scandal, where they were laundering billions and billions of dollars for terrorist organizations and organized crime? The same terrorist organizations and organized crime that is the primary justification for domestic spying, paramilitary police, huge prison populations, secret rendition and indefinite detention?

Remember how the DOJ refused to prosecute? Wierd.

Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#73

Post by toofishes »

rsync wrote: post #9

If you don't host your own mail server, you are a clown-person. Joe 6 pack has an excuse, but nobody here does.

If you don't run your own post office, you are a clown-person. Joe 6 pack has an excuse, but nobody here does.

Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#75

Post by jamesmcn »

gnaritas wrote: post #53
jacquesm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The war on terror positively thrives on fear. Terrified people make stupid mistakes, sign away their rights with reckless abandon in the hope that it will allay their fears. No electorate is so easy to manipulate as one that is afraid.

Of course, but that fear that enables the war is the same fear the war is meant to eliminate, the fear caused by the initial terror attack. 911 scared the hell out of people, enough to allow some dreadful laws to be passed, but out of fear people do stupid things to try and feel safe again. The TSA doesn't make us safe, but it made most feel safer, at least initially.

Using war to cure terror is like using cyanide to cure a headache.

Osama bin Laden would have killed more Americans by investing in Ford and GM+. And after the bailout, he would have made a profit too!

+ I'm not picking on Ford or GM here, they make fine cars. But automobiles kill far more people every year than terrorism has in the last decade.

Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#77

Post by obstacle1 »

cglace wrote: post #67
gnaritas wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there really actual fear today in a western country? Have you met the republican party? Their entire base lives off fear. > I think actual fear would have to come from injuries to someone you know and can feel empathy towards. It's not fear of death or injury, but fear of "other", of change, of being marginalized.

> Have you met the republican party? Their entire base lives off fear. First off not all in the republican party can be characterized this way. You are painting with very broad strokes. Many turn the republican party because they are the closest they can get to their economic beliefs. > It's not fear of death or injury, but fear of "other", of change, of being marginalized. Do you honestly believe this? Do you get yo…

"They kinda come close to my views w/r/t one small aspect of national policy" is a pretty terrible reason to vote for a party. If you're correct that many citizens vote this way, you'd all be better off withholding from participation until you can fix your electoral system.

Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#78

Post by benhebert »

War on terror is a hoax used for pushing forward an agenda. Save us from the terrorists and drugs! God forbid you travel out of the US and see some of the world, you might be "taken".

The way the media sensationalizes some of these shootings, it's like we have to live in a constant state of fear.

Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#79

Post by mhurron »

gnaritas wrote: post #55
polshaw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The war on terror is... about preventing fear. Many people would argue exactly the opposite

You can argue the opposite of anything, and many do; doesn't mean anything. 911 for example, caused the fear, which then was used to pass draconian laws, but those laws were meant to both seize power and alleviate the fear, to the point of implementing things like the TSA, which aren't real protection, but make people feel less fear.

Other than the government with it's war on terror, who has actually done anything to perpetrate fear in the population?

Since 2001, there has been no terrorist activity against the US. You are told about threats the war on terror has dealt with, but no actual action or actors can be pointed to yet the government is keeps the fear of terror alive. They have done far more to that end than any terrorist organization has. This causes the population in general to accept any course of action that they are told will deal with that looming threat, but it never seems to do so.

Once side of the government generates and keeps the fear alive, the other side uses the fear to do what they wish. Neither side wants the fear to go away.

The US Government is the largest group terrorizing the US population today. They use the war on terror to do it.

Re: Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain Warrant to Monitor Email

#80

Post by chacham15 »

ghayes wrote: post #2

I wish we would treat cyberspace analogues of established property with the same respect given to the original. For example, your e-mail inbox is the online equivalent of your mailbox. Yet, one being "on your lawn" and the other "at Google's data-center," all bets are off. While I believe the Supreme Court should do better job at explicitly addressing this (for instance, "responsible expectation of privacy" establish…

The common analogy given from law academics is that email is more akin to the telegram than postal mail. With postal mail, no one along the entire path actually opens the envelope to see what is inside. This is in contrast to the telegram where the intermediary is exposed to the contents directly. This difference is what leads to the difference in expectation of privacy. In this analogy email is actually more like a telegram. Where I think that the analogy diverges with reality is that the intermediary is now a machine, not a person. Therefore, we expect the machine to not "understand" the data that passes through it and simply deliver it.
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