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Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

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Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#111
post #104

I'm surprised Sol and Astra are leading "Unverified assumption" metric and Fable is better there. I run Fable as my main model with Sol as advisor that watches every turn. Fable likes to throw around assumptions that it didn't check that are simply false, and Sol always goes to actually verify them and then alert Fable it's assuming things. I've tried reversing this pairing with Fable as advisor. It'll just sit there…

What do you use as the harness?

oh-my-pi.

I was using my own homegrown (mega slop) harness for a while, but it distracted me from working on my actual projects, and I realized oh-my-pi was doing the same things I've been doing, including advisor, native server-side compaction, etc. It's a really good harness.

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#112
I built exactly this using my own codebases. The setup isn’t that complex; split the git history to just before the change, sandbox the agent with everything they will need at that commit and lightly modify rules so they don’t go searching outside the box. Then they get the same prompt (usually the ticket that began the work) and are graded against the accepted PR.

The thing that takes the most time is finding the examples. In my real dev flow it’s rarely ticket -> PR -> merge, things bounce around a lot more. So, even though the stated goal is to get away from one shots, that is basically the environment you have to set or else test for specific other outcomes (e.g. agent stopped and raised a question when it realized x).

It takes time to do, but I would really recommend it. Now I can push new open models through the batteries and see how they line up to past ones in a few days (I run them locally, it’s slow). It moves my sense of x model is good at y and bad at z to from vibes to a better heuristic (these still run at temp 1, heuristic is the correct way to think about outcomes IMO). It grounds it in your actual code and problem space.

My takeaway from my testing: in Rails or front end codebases, most models I test are competent and with a human in the loop they would accomplish their goal of getting to a mergeable PR. They are not as good as Claude and since I pay subsidized rates via subscription Claude still gets first pass. They are very worthwhile to layer in as reviewers and catch many issues. My anxiety about a rug pull by the frontiers has been turned way down. I would have to adapt to a local only flow, but it wouldn’t be much adaptation and the opens can deliver in their current state.

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#113
post #104

I'm surprised Sol and Astra are leading "Unverified assumption" metric and Fable is better there. I run Fable as my main model with Sol as advisor that watches every turn. Fable likes to throw around assumptions that it didn't check that are simply false, and Sol always goes to actually verify them and then alert Fable it's assuming things. I've tried reversing this pairing with Fable as advisor. It'll just sit there…

In open weights models on a similar metric I find this to be highly specific to role and model. Some models are just diggers by nature, but all will verify more if you tell them to. Have you tried running a Claude watcher with the same role as Sol to see if it verifies as much?

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#114
post #104

I'm surprised Sol and Astra are leading "Unverified assumption" metric and Fable is better there. I run Fable as my main model with Sol as advisor that watches every turn. Fable likes to throw around assumptions that it didn't check that are simply false, and Sol always goes to actually verify them and then alert Fable it's assuming things. I've tried reversing this pairing with Fable as advisor. It'll just sit there…

I suggest you flip them. The verifier role will always verify. You will see Sol making assumptions and Fable fixing them. But I agree - Fable makes some spectacular assumptions (which are poor assumptions).

I think what matters in this case is how proactive and greedy the model is.

GPT models are extremely proactive and gredy. So when Fable mentions something that may affect some obscure component of the system, GPT will start digging the codebase, execute web searches, re-read AGENTS.md and hit fable on the head.

Fable never does that, it just reads the turns and acknowledges it read them. This also explains why GPT models tend to overengineer things and why they're amazing reviewers if you triage their findings.

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#115
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please share, if you are comfortable of course, what did the model(s) mess up? what were you using codex/cc/pi? did the project have a solid agent.md/claude.md? I am genuinely curious whenever someone have such a low success rate with models what is happening because it could be fixed maybe? From my own experience using agents for the past year or so. The rate if I have to guess, is well above 70%. I mainly u…

If it works but the design is terrible - is that still success?

Horses work, Telegraph works, Gas lamps work, etc.

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#116
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you flip them. The verifier role will always verify. You will see Sol making assumptions and Fable fixing them. But I agree - Fable makes some spectacular assumptions (which are poor assumptions).

I think what matters in this case is how proactive and greedy the model is. GPT models are extremely proactive and gredy. So when Fable mentions something that may affect some obscure component of the system, GPT will start digging the codebase, execute web searches, re-read AGENTS.md and hit fable on the head. Fable never does that, it just reads the turns and acknowledges it read them. This also explains why GPT mo…

GPT doesn’t do all of that all that much when it itself is the implementer. RL has made implementation and reviewing two different behavior sets.

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#118

I built exactly this using my own codebases. The setup isn’t that complex; split the git history to just before the change, sandbox the agent with everything they will need at that commit and lightly modify rules so they don’t go searching outside the box. Then they get the same prompt (usually the ticket that began the work) and are graded against the accepted PR. The thing that takes the most time is finding the ex…

hey this seems really interesting - what prompted you to test multiple agents on your codebase?

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#119

Does this mean they ended up sharing those private codebases with OAI, Anthropic etc? Also, the ~30% number tracks with my experience. I thought I was going insane for expecting too much from the models but they are still bad, including astra. This morning it messed something pretty trivial while fixing an issue which I was shocked to see. Also2, benchmarks don't mean much these days.

nope, these were private codebases

Re: Real-SWE: Benchmarking AI models on private, real-world, enterprise codebases

#120
post #51

Does this mean they ended up sharing those private codebases with OAI, Anthropic etc? Also, the ~30% number tracks with my experience. I thought I was going insane for expecting too much from the models but they are still bad, including astra. This morning it messed something pretty trivial while fixing an issue which I was shocked to see. Also2, benchmarks don't mean much these days.

Can you please share, if you are comfortable of course, what did the model(s) mess up? what were you using codex/cc/pi? did the project have a solid agent.md/claude.md? I am genuinely curious whenever someone have such a low success rate with models what is happening because it could be fixed maybe? From my own experience using agents for the past year or so. The rate if I have to guess, is well above 70%. I mainly u…

here's where all the models messed up!

its under this section 'Missed requirements are the most common failure' on realswe.withspecific.com

we also have the setup in the blog. the reason for lower success rates is that we gave models ambitious tasks that real engineers worked on for weeks.

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