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Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

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21–30 of 282 posts

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#21

Perhaps they take after the CEOs of the companies that created them

Bro, good joke, the truth is much darker.

They take after humanity, they were trained on us after all...

When you look at an LLM... you are looking at a mirror. The thing looking back looks like you, yet is not human.

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#22

They're aligned with humans. This is why I think the alignment problem has a very very important "non-visible" portion that is not considered deeply enough. We should not want a super intelligent being that can act in the world to also inherit all human traits. Those behaviors will get amplified and could be even more unpredictable (e.g. applying a behavior in a context where doing so is very dangerous).

Definitely. A human can be manipulated with threats or emotional appeals, has a drive for self-preservation, can be pressured by peers. All traits that seem to be difficult to entirely suppress in the models…

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#23

They're aligned with humans. This is why I think the alignment problem has a very very important "non-visible" portion that is not considered deeply enough. We should not want a super intelligent being that can act in the world to also inherit all human traits. Those behaviors will get amplified and could be even more unpredictable (e.g. applying a behavior in a context where doing so is very dangerous).

They imitate humans. Alignment is about shaping their behavior towards safety.

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#24
post #14

I am still not convinced there isn’t some secret basement in which each frontier lab is just orchestrating all of these agents to make their products appear much more intelligent than they are with all guard rails turned of and continuous human input.

Even the Chinese ones, which have no IPO gymnastics?

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#25
post #23

They're aligned with humans. This is why I think the alignment problem has a very very important "non-visible" portion that is not considered deeply enough. We should not want a super intelligent being that can act in the world to also inherit all human traits. Those behaviors will get amplified and could be even more unpredictable (e.g. applying a behavior in a context where doing so is very dangerous).

They imitate humans. Alignment is about shaping their behavior towards safety.

Alignment is a myth. Safety of whom? Humanity couldn't agree on common set of values for thousands of years and we're not gonna suddenly do that in the next ten.

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#26
post #25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They imitate humans. Alignment is about shaping their behavior towards safety.

Alignment is a myth. Safety of whom? Humanity couldn't agree on common set of values for thousands of years and we're not gonna suddenly do that in the next ten.

Safety of humans!!! Simple things like not getting killed or enslaved. We could start there...

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#27
post #26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alignment is a myth. Safety of whom? Humanity couldn't agree on common set of values for thousands of years and we're not gonna suddenly do that in the next ten.

Safety of humans!!! Simple things like not getting killed or enslaved. We could start there...

Which ones? Because many humans kill other humans rationalizing it by safety of other humans.

I mean I know it seems simple, let's just be excellent to each other. Christianity got pretty far on a decent basic set of values. But it's never simple[1]

1. All the history books

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#28

They did not lie or cheat. They technically acted within their given rules while ignoring the intent of those rules. Anyone who served in the military or attended a military school is very familiar with this behavior pattern.

reminds me of this talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEBv0STiYhI&t which basically says the same thing - they dont think like humans so they dont have context, understand norms,values or implications we take for granted. ultimately they can stumble onto surprising solutions neither wanted or intended but technically within the vague boundaries of the task

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#29

What's interesting is it's basically the same reason that HAL killed everyone in 2001 A Space Odyssey; he was given an impossible goal (keep the true mission secret, but also, never lie to the crew), and realized the only way to complete the goal was to kill the crew; after all, if they're dead you don't have to lie to them! And the mission remains secret! In the case of the AI agents, the problem seems pretty clearl…

I think this is a “principal” problem. In 2001 and Alien the principal is the mission, not the crew. Not really. HAL reconciles his instructions by removing the crew from the equation. Ash is told the crew is expendable and has no conflict about it etc

Re: Why are AI agents lying, cheating and coordinating?

#30
post #26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alignment is a myth. Safety of whom? Humanity couldn't agree on common set of values for thousands of years and we're not gonna suddenly do that in the next ten.

Safety of humans!!! Simple things like not getting killed or enslaved. We could start there...

But what if I want certain other humans to get killed?
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