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LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

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Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#371

Post by ssl-3 »

rlpb wrote: post #350
ryandrake wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it's not even about why they're doing it (building an advertising profile). I don't want them doing it at all, for any reason. When I buy something from the store, my relationship is between me and the store, for the 30 seconds it takes for me to pay for it. I don't want an ongoing relationship with the device manufacturer. I don't want to be tethered in any way to the manufacturer. I don't want to have an acc…

> I don't want an ongoing relationship with the device manufacturer. I think it depends on the device. If I buy an iPhone, I have the expectation of installing apps on it after purchase, and that necessarily involves a relationship with the app store provider (ie. Apple), not the store I bought the phone from. With a TV, I suppose it depends on whether I want to install media apps like Prime Video or Netflix on it. I…

When I buy a computer, I have the expectation of installing apps on it after purchase, and that doesn't necessitate any relationship at all with any app store provider of any sort (ie. Apple).

(When I buy a pocket supercomputer, I have that same exact expectation. It's often left unsatisfied, but I still have it.)

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#372

Post by hilbert42 »

germandiago wrote: post #58
seemaze wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who hasn’t owned a television in decades, why would a TV even need a microphone in the first place? How many other household devices have a microphone whose primary function is orthogonal to recording audio?

1984 purposes.

Orwell's 80 years ahead of his time. The great unwashed who watch Netflix etc. either don't know or don't care that they're mirroring the closing moments of the book.

The warning has been there for 80 years and still most are unaware. When Vespasian built the Colosseum it was to help rule over the unruly. Netflix and ilk are its modern incarnation.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#373

Post by mikeryan »

rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

I can’t speak to how LG does this now but I ran an agency that built Smart TV apps and built one of the first ACR powered apps on LG about 10 years ago. We were working with a company called “Cognitive Networks” which later was bought by Vizio and is now their Inscape product. At that time one use case wasn’t just tracking but actual interactive “sync to broadcast” apps (you can still do this, no one does, and I don’t know why)

At that time during testing Cognitive could literally see what we were playing on our TV (not full video but the frames used for fingerprinting)

They don’t use Cognitive anymore for obvious reasons and there are several audio based ACR solutions but they always had issues with sections of video without much audio to work off of so we’re always considered inferior. They are fine for usage data however.

Anyway my $0.02

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#374

Post by what-the-grump »

Rooted all the TVs in the house and now I own the glass and the firmware and the DRM jail. Thanks LG for making everyone burn tokens on plugging your stupid software. But hey now we really own the device and what it does and how it does it.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#375

Post by ygjb »

GreenVulpine wrote: post #165
ygjb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of good reasons that are used to paper over the abuse cases. Microphones in tvs are a useful accessibility feature when they enable voice commands for the user, and allow them to be used as voice assistants. They also enable tvs with a camera and microphone to be used as video calling or audio calling interfaces. Used well we get star Trek view screens, used poorly we get little brother monitoring. For…

There's no practical reason for most people. Spying is the primary function. Edge cases like accessibility or conferencing can be easily enabled with an add on USB mic. You'd need a USB webcam with mic for conferencing anyway.

Accessibility is not an edge case. Every single human being who lives long enough will experience some form of accessibity challenge, either for themselves or for others around them.

You can dismiss the lives experience of most humans over the history of humanity, but it won't win you any arguments.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#376

Post by abeyer »

wongarsu wrote: post #216
seemaze wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any useful resources for finding devices that don't have surveillance apparatus built in? I'm still not purchasing a television. The last thing I need is more screen time in my life.

You'd be looking for what's now called a "dumb tv". But those are getting rare, because TVs that can't sell your watch data have to be more expensive to make up for that, and that doesn't sell. Commercial screens are an option, as are computer monitors. Or getting a smart tv and never connecting it to the internet. So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know.…

> So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know

Yeah, I suspect that it either isn't a big enough segment of the market to make the costs worth it, or they just haven't been caught. Given that it's pretty easy to add amazon sidewalk connectivity to devices with bluetooth radios (which most of these TVs have to support external wireless speakers), I'd be shocked if they hadn't at least experimented and estimated payoff on doing that.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#377

Post by ssl-3 »

BeetleB wrote: post #124
rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

> So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. It apparently is. Do you know the Nielsen Ratings? That's exactly how they know what people are watching these days. I've been contacted by them to be one of their subjects. They ship you a device that listens and recognizes based on content. They look for certai…

Is that how they do it lately?

I participated once or twice a good number of years ago, and it was kind of a pain: It involved keeping a paper ledger of what was watched, and when. Correspondence was all handled by regular mail.

(As I recall, they included a small amount of cash ~every time they sent more correspondence and this was a primary motivator to keep going with it.)

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#378

Post by machomaster »

qlte wrote: post #322
canucker2016 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 5:58 of the Gamers Nexus (GN) video about LG TV's spying, GN make a statement: Now, our lawyers have made the totally unrelated point uh that we cannot legally agree to contracts such as terms of service or conditions while incredibly innebriated. So they drank a lot of margaritas while video-recording the section concerning reading and accepting the Terms of Service for the TV. Take that LG legal dept. see https:…

I personally would not trust legal advice from YouTubers who make money from whatever "content" generates the most views. The more outrageous and controversial the better, making sense or being true a distant secondary priority. Even those who make a name for themselves as trustworthy tend to eventually succomb to the incentives of the algorithm if it's their day job.

It's clear that you don't know anything about guys at GN.

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#379

Post by socalgal2 »

rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

Well, not that Apple is doing it all their fans will claim it's ok

Re: LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

#380

Post by ssl-3 »

MisterTea wrote: post #346
rpdillon wrote: post #18

LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. Th…

The thing which depresses me the most is all these so-called smart TV's are giant Arm computers that run malicious software. Imagine if we could re-flash your TV with Linux or whatever.

I can imagine that. We'd have a slow SBC with a fast video decoder, a huge screen that is inseparable and also now uncalibrated, some video inputs for other things, maybe a tuner if anyone can figure it out, and some kind of network connectivity.

I could probably come up with a use for that, but it's about as likely as coming up with a plan for one of the Raspberry Pi Zero Ws that are sitting in the drawer.

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