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Fuck it, make it anyway

joelotter.com

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Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#371

Post by shit_game »

abstractcontrol wrote: post #269

If I were an artist, I wouldn't really care that a machine took over the role of drawing lines on paper, and as a programmer, I don't care that the machines are taking the role of writing code. The thing that actually matters is understanding the problem domain, and thinking about and visualizing the program I am trying to make, so I am happy to be doing less drudge work so I can focus on what really matters. I've be…

"I am not , but if I were, I'd have about it." isn't a terribly convincing argument. Opinions (good ones, at least) are shaped by experience - what experience is there to shape your opinion on AI affecting art when you aren't an artist?

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#372

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

codazoda wrote: post #158
goonersallofyou wrote: post #52

> the output doesn’t feel like mine, and I take no pride in what it produces. So much this. I don't understand how some people seem to have no self awareness or shame in saying "I build X" where "X" was entirely prompted by an LLM. It's like ordering a meal from door dash and calling yourself a chef.

That is almost to say that the only part of the project that matters is the code. But the code is only a tiny part. I take joy in describing the thing and bringing that vision to life.

> "I take joy in describing the thing and bringing that vision to life."

That's what management pats itself on the back for doing, the only difference being that it's taking credit for the work the LLM does instead of taking credit for the work of human subordinates. The trope of the "ideas guy" is derided for a reason.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#373

Post by chrismarlow9 »

jschveibinz wrote: post #361

Look, folks. I'm an old man and pretty much out of the workforce at this point in my life. But what I see in these comments day, after day is rather pitiful. As your Uncle John, I'm going to give you a lecture: From the article: >I can’t really blame anyone who’s just gone along with things Whst is this supposed to mean "blame"? Do you "blame" people for driving cars instead of riding horses? Do you "blame" software…

Agreed . I told my partner about a year ago "I have to figure out how to love this AI thing because it's a part of life now, even if I stop working with computers". And admitting that maybe I'm not being as open as I should be about it was the first step.

I see it like cloud computing. We were told infrastructure engineers wouldn't be necessary and anyone could build at scale now and blah blah. Instead we got Terraform and solid practices for infrastructure as code and moved beyond having to email some dude to get a new VPS or dedicated server spun up and making trips to the colo. It just changed the possibilities of what we could build.

I've been treating AI the same way and just leveled up what I build now and my ambition. It has helped a great deal with being okay with AI. All those fun insane projects in my head that I never figured would happen because "it would take a full team months to code that" are realistically possible. Big things that used to be entire companies are now possible. You hate Google search now? Guess what, you can make your own!

I don't treat my side projects purely as an "end goal" anymore but as a learning experience now. I slow down and actually read the code. These are my own projects. Then I take these things I learn to work and apply them. That's how it's always been when new tech comes along. I also hated kubernetes when it first came, but have now settled into "it has it's place". I learned about myself a bit and that I should be a little more open to change if for no other reason than peace of mind.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#374

Post by dahart »

aniviacat wrote: post #64
MachineMan wrote: post #10

In general creators must do some honest introspection. Did you enjoy the crafts, or did you enjoy the compliments? Did you enjoy the difficult puzzles or the identity derived from a career that gives you the reputation and perceived value of someone who can do a thing most people can’t? Did you enjoy the code itself or the accomplishment of seeing your ideas brought to life? Who remains when the thing you do no longe…

I don't think that fully captures the situation. My mother plants tomatoes in her garden. She invests a lot of work into them, only to get a few tomatoes a year. Clearly it is not an economic effort; clearly she is doing it out of passion, not for the actual value of the tomatoes. However, imagine the plants stopped yielding tomatoes, and would never do so again. Would my mother continue working on her tomatoes? I do…

Sure of course there will be some internal reason or some non-zero value behind doing any craft. But the analogy to AI & software engineering careers is that there are corporate for-profit tomato farms today. They have pushed out plenty of small farm businesses. Your mom enjoys tomato growing in spite of the availability of cheap high quality tomatoes. Your comment seems to me to agree with and support the GP comment entirely; you mom found value in doing the work despite there being no financial incentive.

Many people have argued over the years that it would be great when we have an economy that takes care of all the labor and everyone in society is free to choose to spend all of their time on things that have no financial incentive.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#375

Post by qarl »

MachineMan wrote: post #10

In general creators must do some honest introspection. Did you enjoy the crafts, or did you enjoy the compliments? Did you enjoy the difficult puzzles or the identity derived from a career that gives you the reputation and perceived value of someone who can do a thing most people can’t? Did you enjoy the code itself or the accomplishment of seeing your ideas brought to life? Who remains when the thing you do no longe…

As a creator - I am delighted that I can now create at about 20X the rate of what I could before. Maybe more.

I have produced more cool shit in the last 6 months than I have in the preceding 10 years. It's an amazing time to be alive.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#376

Post by amlib »

adar2378 wrote: post #362
jschveibinz wrote: post #361

Look, folks. I'm an old man and pretty much out of the workforce at this point in my life. But what I see in these comments day, after day is rather pitiful. As your Uncle John, I'm going to give you a lecture: From the article: >I can’t really blame anyone who’s just gone along with things Whst is this supposed to mean "blame"? Do you "blame" people for driving cars instead of riding horses? Do you "blame" software…

yeah exactly! Either adapt/innovate or do something else.

Hard to do when adapting/innovating means essentially joining the Borg. People have a million analogies to what is happening with AI right now but they often fail to see how unprecedented it is. Is history really just repeating? Are we in a cycle? Or is this just a paperclip optimizer?

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#378

Post by hollars »

Like you are hand crafting a C++ game engine because you like to, I am crafting a category theory based foundation of accounting in various odd languages. Mine is made possible by AI because I'm only an accountant, not a mathematician. So your article is inspiring, humane, and I appreciate you sharing it.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#379

Post by kriskrunch »

jschveibinz wrote: post #361

Look, folks. I'm an old man and pretty much out of the workforce at this point in my life. But what I see in these comments day, after day is rather pitiful. As your Uncle John, I'm going to give you a lecture: From the article: >I can’t really blame anyone who’s just gone along with things Whst is this supposed to mean "blame"? Do you "blame" people for driving cars instead of riding horses? Do you "blame" software…

I came here to write something similar but not as forceful. Your comment is far better than might ever have the guts or wherewithal to express. I build things with the tools I have. I also repair the ancient wood windows at my house with an assortment of POWER tools, like a router and table saw.

AI is my coding power tool. I'm building stuff for humans, just faster now. It's amazing.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#380

Post by switchbak »

dimes wrote: post #363
jschveibinz wrote: post #361

Look, folks. I'm an old man and pretty much out of the workforce at this point in my life. But what I see in these comments day, after day is rather pitiful. As your Uncle John, I'm going to give you a lecture: From the article: >I can’t really blame anyone who’s just gone along with things Whst is this supposed to mean "blame"? Do you "blame" people for driving cars instead of riding horses? Do you "blame" software…

“Just suck it up” coming from a person who doesn’t have to deal with the consequences has to be the least convincing take on the situation I’ve heard by far. So congrats on that. To offer a perspective from someone in the field: I built my career as a craftsman. Not just my livelihood, but my family’s livelihood depended on this craft. And within a few short months, my value has plummeted. I’ve tried to adapt, but I…

Yeah, you and me both. Look at it on the long scale of history, change is a constant. Everything is impermanent. It’s not our choice to have this forced upon us, but it’s our choice as to how we adapt. Or not.

Personally, I’m choosing to be mentally flexible. I don’t want to embrace fear, fear is the mind killer.

You can probably do a whole lot of things to make money. I’ve only ever made software, so this is a real kick in the arse, but so be it. Time to pay attention and see where this story goes.

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