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Fuck it, make it anyway

joelotter.com

491–500 of 613 posts

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#491
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea this whole “your job is to create value” argument is always really shaky. Add “with computers and stuff” to the end and it becomes more plausible. Nobody gets a degree is “providing value”.

Nobody is hired for a job if the person hiring does not think they will produce value

Nobody is hired for a job if the person hiring thinks that the employee will murder them. So I guess that makes the most salient job description "refraining from murdering your boss"?

Or it might be that any baseline expectation which applies to 99.99% of all employment (I don't need Kevorkian giving me the side eye..) fails to be a good way to differentiate one kind of employment from the next or describing how and why people choose a specific kind of employment

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#492
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you care? If it's bad people won't buy it. If people buy it, it's only bad to you

In the craft fair case the issue is the tragedy of the commons. If people come to think that all craft fairs are choked up with AI slop and Temu (literally) 3D printed flexi-dragons then it does enormous damage to the notion of art fairs as a place to see the work of artistic individuals; the whole category will die. This could happen much sooner than the slop-producing participants see a financial disincentive to at…

Yes, I go to so many because my wife sells her novels at them.

There's also the issue that there is limited space at craft fairs with wait lists for vendors. A dishonest vendor is holding a space a different vendor could have instead.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#493
post #72

In general creators must do some honest introspection. Did you enjoy the crafts, or did you enjoy the compliments? Did you enjoy the difficult puzzles or the identity derived from a career that gives you the reputation and perceived value of someone who can do a thing most people can’t? Did you enjoy the code itself or the accomplishment of seeing your ideas brought to life? Who remains when the thing you do no longe…

This is eery to read, as I've been thinking something very similar recently whilst discussing gen AI with a close friend who works in tech but isn't a developer, who now uses AI to build everything he wished he could. Meanwhile I've seen other people, colleagues, friends, who are programmers get incredibly frustrated about AI and it's almost entirely that it lets non-developers make things. The feeling I get is that…

>The people who are upset by this change, in my experience, are all the people who would answer that a programmer's job is to write code. The people who are happy about this change, are those who would answer a programmer's job is to produce value.

Think of it another way:

You are a bricklayer, who is proud to build brick walls that are as strong and as elegant as possible, capable of withstanding earthquakes and vehicle impacts, while using as few bricks as possible and introducing as few flaws as possible. The walls you build can stand for decades without significant maintenance.

Suddenly all the rage centers around a brick-flinging robot that bodily yeets bricks and mortar in a general direction, until the pile is high enough to act as a wall. And everyone goes nuts over that robot, with construction companies firing brick layers hand over fist.

The robot cannot create quality. It cannot create robustness. It cannot create stability or strength or beauty. All it can do is yeet bricks and mortar until something that resembles a wall takes shape, but with none of the advantages of your hand-made work, and all of the disadvantages you spent a career trying to eliminate from your work.

Would you be impressed, excited, or angry?

I centainly wouldn’t be the first two.

At some point that robot will acquire much the same intelligence - and along with it, taste and creativity and skills - as you do. But it hasn’t happened yet, and it likely won’t happen for a long time. Until then, it is a puppet doing its best to imitate things by cribbing everyone else’s homework piecemeal like a lego kitbash from at least 100 different sets, and failing abysmally beneath a thin veneer of “abilities”

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#494
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're projecting, and there are plenty of people in crafts who are using AI output as an input to their own works who are having a blast. AI images make amazing collages/photobash inputs, and AI music is useful to sample or use as inspiration for parts you're stuck on. These people just keep quiet about their use because of the witch hunts being persecuted by people who are afraid of change. AI use in creative field…

> You're projecting, No, I'm actually not. I'm an active creative portrait photographer and I take part in photographic communities with people much, much better than me, I am surrounded by dozens of gigging and working musicians, songwriters and composers in my friend group (and play a couple of instruments myself); I know painters and illustrators of great ability (though I am not that kind of artist). I listen to…

> AI generated creative works have zero value.

Then how have I gotten value from some of them?

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a failure of imagination to me (I hope you're right). It doesn't have to be the CTO, it can be anyone who will sit there for the cheapest cost to read output while assuming the risk of it all working until they retire. Sounds glorious

Even if all the changes are “good” not shoddy, awareness of changes will still require layers of cognitive filtering. One human PM clerk will not be able to oversee all of the products, one developer will not be able to oversee all changes in all codebases.

Well obviously the real solution is for the owner of the company to

1. Fire everyone else

2. prompt the AI "make me more money than you cost" (that's a short prompt, innit?)

3. Retire to Aruba

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#496
What a ludicrously privileged article from the point of view of someone who isn't taking into account rent, sky high food and fuel costs, and a broken and dangerous healthcare system that will bankrupt you if you sneeze wrong.

You want to talk about fulfillment in our jobs like that is still the top line item to businesses. This is not the 90s anymore. Nobody is pretending software is supposed to be fulfilling anymore. It's a paycheck.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#497
I liked having a special skill, now I just have to find new ones. Frankly I'm not worried about jobs in tech going away, I've seen non-technical people use the latest ai models and I've seen only bad results (obviously far more than they could have gotten before ai though).

It sucks but it is what it is, if you still like programming by hand (I enjoy doing leetcode) then go ahead and do it. Find some other value, if your identity in life was tied to being able to program then you likely have other issues.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#498

What a ludicrously privileged article from the point of view of someone who isn't taking into account rent, sky high food and fuel costs, and a broken and dangerous healthcare system that will bankrupt you if you sneeze wrong. You want to talk about fulfillment in our jobs like that is still the top line item to businesses. This is not the 90s anymore. Nobody is pretending software is supposed to be fulfilling anymor…

Cave troll detected.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#499
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the craft fair case the issue is the tragedy of the commons. If people come to think that all craft fairs are choked up with AI slop and Temu (literally) 3D printed flexi-dragons then it does enormous damage to the notion of art fairs as a place to see the work of artistic individuals; the whole category will die. This could happen much sooner than the slop-producing participants see a financial disincentive to at…

Yes, I go to so many because my wife sells her novels at them. There's also the issue that there is limited space at craft fairs with wait lists for vendors. A dishonest vendor is holding a space a different vendor could have instead.

It's difficult territory because at some level asking people to meet a certain standard to have a stall at a craft fair is, essentially, "gatekeeping".

But art sales are really the only gatekeeping there is in art, and it has to do with there being a literal gate to a limited space. (It's also usually not artists themselves doing the gatekeeping)

People who are engaged in art really ask so little of other people who want to engage with art — the barriers to entry are essentially non-existent except intent and willingness to learn and spend effort. Essentially every kind of expressive art is cheaper than a good computer; every kind of art has someone enthusiastically chipping away on the internet about it.

But when it comes to access to the physical space to sell physical work that is the result of effort and learning, someone does have to say: "this is not the right space for these kinds of things". The question is how do you judge and how do you say it without destroying enthusiasm.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure there is some of that, people looking back at years of learning a skill, maybe even turning it into a productive career, and being upset that anyone can pay for an LLM tool and get output they believe is comparable. In my opinion, that’s not the whole thing and the article and the parent post touch on this. The part about the process of struggling to get your mind to understand new ideas and new ways of doin…

NGL, its a little annoying and disheartening that many can now partially build with an LLM tool what I spent so many years learning. It does not cover all cases, but there is an element of this.

I think it’s very human and honest of you to admit that.
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