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Fuck it, make it anyway

joelotter.com

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Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#161

Post by 01100011 »

timcobb wrote: post #91

My first thought after reading this was, good for this person to have only been broken, or nearly broken, I guess, by society finally now. I was broken long before AI. I learned that no one was interested in my doodads even before generative AI. People were interested in all this other stuff, like ROI, how much money things make, how practical something is, etc. "No one cares about the code" was beat into me 10-20 ye…

Hah, I think I agree with this, but from a cynical, dark perspective.

I'm an old systems programmer (embedded, c/c++, linux, etc) with an EE background (but not one of them if you know what I mean. I enjoyed software and appreciate the art). But early on I came to believe software engineering at a workplace is not your personal art project. If you want that, great, go write code on your own time(as many of us do!). But on the job I often get annoyed by folks who don't want to do the obviously correct thing, or want to fight against good refactoring or design feedback (usually not from me.. I'm like a 'B' tier programmer and in awe of the 'A' level I work with). People treat software as an art and while you want to be artful in execution, if you are a paid artist, it is a commission work. Honor the requirements of the company (business needs) and not just your personal feelings and desire to only make art.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#162

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

f0e4c2f7 wrote: post #155
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #61

For the last couple of years, I've been crafting and shipping a free app that Serves a particular narrow demographic. It works extremely well, but is a native iOS app (I don't write Android). When I first developed it, I worked with a professional graphic designer, and the app has a unique UX. In fact, with the latest release, I had to "walk back" a bit of the stuff the designer did, as I believe it interfered with u…

Have you considered setting up an agent environment like codex and having it work making on Android version for you? I know you said it's a very complex app and that probably makes it seem like it wouldn't be able to, but LLMs are really good when they have a very clearly defined end state to work toward, like an existing iOS app with code, screenshots etc. I bet if you set Astra codex against this task on the $100 p…

I scoped out exactly that.

The issue is that I store user data. Also, the users of the app are a very privacy-sensitive demographic. That raises the stakes, considerably.

I can't just "vibe code" an app that does the same thing mine does. It needs to be vetted by a good native Android developer that I trust, and that gets expensive.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#164

Post by x3haloed »

This is 80% ego talking and 20% fear of change.

The comment about hobby vs. work is correct, and it’s the crux of this.

OP is attempting to console themselves. “I shouldn’t have to change to avoid ‘falling behind.’ I like how I’m doing it. I’m good at what I do.”

The fact of the matter is the LLMs can be used to produce effective work faster than you. Yes. You are falling behind. And yes, it will reduce your value in the job market. Eventually it will be a dramatic reduction.

That doesn’t mean you must stop coding by hand, because you love it. But I don’t think you do love it. I think you love being praised for being smart. The pats on the head. That’s the most likely explanation for why your motivation for coding by hand has disappeared. Once the results stopped being a special output from your special brain, you stopped feeling special.

You have a choice now that the landscape is changing. You can find a way to produce unique and outstanding results that still matter, or you can slowly fade into a hardened stance of obsolescence and spend your time grumbling about the change.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#165

Post by CuriouslyC »

dofm wrote: post #70

This. This is more or less precisely how I feel. Other creative fields have already begun to get a handle on how AI is a soul-deadening thief of joy in their fields. I have hope for illustrators and painters and photographers and musicians and makers. With those friends and in those communities I see people who have already done the thinking, can already express their feelings, and are already making commitments to d…

You're projecting, and there are plenty of people in crafts who are using AI output as an input to their own works who are having a blast. AI images make amazing collages/photobash inputs, and AI music is useful to sample or use as inspiration for parts you're stuck on. These people just keep quiet about their use because of the witch hunts being persecuted by people who are afraid of change.

AI use in creative fields is similar now to PEDs use in sports, except more ubiquitous.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#167

Post by Tade0 »

user43928 wrote: post #65
lacedeconstruct wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My app has 200k LOC + 100k in tests, and there is no sign of the AI slowing down or being unable to maintain it. May I ask what does this app do ? 200k is like GTA vice city level, is like sqlite level, If its a financial tracker or a to-do list or an agent coordinator I am going to kill myself

I'm not going to share exact details about my paid app, but you could think media management, with a lot of extra features, an in-app browser with custom controls, and multiple AI powered features with on device processing.

> I'm not going to share exact details about my paid app

You might not be aware of this, but you've answered the question - just indirectly.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#168

Post by brabel »

01100011 wrote: post #137

I've had some form of this conversation several times in the past few months: Me: "Holy cow, LLMs are getting good. You should take another look at how good recent tools are because without them we're going to get left behind." Them: "But I like writing code!" Which is cool, but completely irrelevant in the context of a career. Write all the software you want. Paint all the pictures you want. Carve wood. Build a boat…

I actually do enjoy writing code , it’s like a puzzle to be solved and I get a hit every time I solve it. But after we started generating all code with AI at work, I feel very inefficient writing code by hand on my hobby projects. I still do it but I have become too aware now of every little struggle, like a beginner, since I know I could just pull up a Claude session at any moment and get over with it by telling it as much as “finish this thing for me”. It will know exactly what I was doing just by looking at the working tree and likely won’t even need to ask questions. I also know that without asking AI for a review, I am almost certainly introducing bugs all over that the AI could prevent. And that my tests will never be as thorough as AI written tests. So I am not sure how long I will be able to keep writing even my hobby code by hand. Perhaps hand written code will become a super niche field for certain things and I will find a place where that is still needed, but that is pure speculation. From what I see right now, it’s a matter of a year or so for me to just not be able to endure the grind of writing code by hand even if I would like to. I think this will eventually catch up with everyone, not just me and most of the industry which already moved on to fully AI generated code… but even the last Mohicans, like the Zig guys, will have to eventually give up on their no ai stance.

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#169

Post by indigodaddy »

So, I think one of the more interesting fits for AI is for tech-heads that aren't really proper devs/programmers. So like for example myself I'm just a Linux/sysadmin/devops guy. I can figure some shit out for sure and have glided upon the surface of webdev for a few decades, but I cannot by any means call myself a developer. However, with AI over the last couple of years, I've been able to do a lot of cool shit that I never would have dreamed of, and at the same time I've learnt some things (I won't claim to think that I've learned more than I could/would have if I'd actually put in the study/time/work, but that might be a different conversation). Point is for non-dev tech-heads like myself, I think that might be the sweetest spot for the actual enjoyment of AI? Eg we can perhaps put out some slightly above average AI slop, yeah it's not exactly "ours," but goddam did we have fun and we did some shit that we've always wanted to do, and it came out pretty damn decent, good enough for our usage!

Some things I've done that have been incredibly fun and invigorating and never would have happened if not for AI:

https://afterword.exe.xyz (I wanted badly to play Jonah's original Word After Word (desktop only) game on my phone or just in a web browser and with remote friends/family, so got his blessing for a web remake)

https://github.com/jgbrwn/fetchcade

https://loderunner2099.exe.xyz/

https://v2.my-upc.com (don't ask, if you know, you know)

https://cartalk-amp.exe.xyz

https://aiconversation.apps.techpique.com

https://github.com/jgbrwn/mst3k-anything (Paste a video URL. Get back a robot-heckled version)

https://hn-readtheroom.exe.xyz/

https://jgbrwn.itch.io/cannonsmash-web

https://history-of-webhosting.exe.xyz/

https://wordizzle.exe.xyz/ (WIP)

https://exe-muttha-fukken-dev.exe.xyz/ (fansite lol)

https://github.com/jgbrwn/vibebin

https://github.com/jgbrwn/rsync-web

https://github.com/jgbrwn/retro-computing-stream

https://github.com/jgbrwn/github-repo-stream

Re: Fuck it, make it anyway

#170

Post by analog8374 »

in art you don't know what you're making. you are creating, you aren't just moving towards a goal. that's the power of it and that's why it feels so good. now an llm might assist in that, but you got to be there with your hands on it, deeply. there is no other way.
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