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A misalignment of AI in mathematics

mathandai.org

931–940 of 946 posts

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#931
post #924

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Replacing people leaves no room for people. I am much more than my job. If I receive basic income, please replace my job ASAP! And if I don't receive a basic income in a world where AI is capable of replacing all human jobs, then the problem is not AI, but the powers that be.

You know your basic income will be some minumum to make you shut up, while the owner class will own everything?

As long as it's enough to afford my current living standard, I don't care. Let Musk own the entire Mars, as long as I receive enough to live relatively comfortably and don't have to work anymore.

And if I don't receive enough, then again: the problem is not AI, but powers that be. And there are various solutions for that... and none of them are helped by me being anti-AI.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#932

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because his letter misuses the word "misalignment" for what's very clearly a capability gap. To anyone familiar with that sort of language, his prose is directly implying that evil superintelligent AIs are deliberately writing obscure proofs in order to harm the community of human mathematicians, which is exactly what the AI-hating Luddite would say! The reality is closer to "current frontier AIs are clueless about w…

> his prose is directly implying that evil superintelligent AIs are deliberately writing obscure proofs in order to harm the community of human mathematicians That is probably the wildest misinterpretation of sth I have ever read here. Misalignment is used as in the goals and interests of ai COMPANIES are not the same as the ones of the mathematical community. It is very proper use of the word, and if anything imo th…

The point stands whether you attribute agency to AIs themselves or to AI companies. The companies are not deliberately sabotaging human mathematical understanding by writing up purposely inscrutable results, either (which is what the word 'misalignment' would imply in this context): they are merely working with frontier tools that have a very limited capability for human-like understanding. It's left to human mathematicians to bridge that particular gap.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#933
post #881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applications don't care whether the math was proven and understood by humans or computers. Your algorithm will get faster no matter where the insight came from.

Applications do not care about 99.999% of theoretical math production anyway. And especially most of the big results in theoretical math nowadays are really inconsequential in applications.

Applications don't care about Navier Stokes, yes. But they care about eg proving crytographics secure, or proving that your algorithm doesn't blow up under adversarial input.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#934
post #243

This sounds a lot to me like people in the 90's complaining that computers were destroying chess. Thirty years later, chess is more popular than it ever was, and chess players are better than they ever have been. I wouldn't be surprised if there are now more chess books now than there ever have been. Furthermore, it turns out that a lot of chess books written before computers were just wrong about a lot of things. It…

I was apart of the "covid chess cohort" and got really into it for quite a few years. In that time, I also learned about what the chess culture was like pre-engine and post-engine, and I think you could argue that post-engine did kind of make the game more mechanical - and that kinda ruined things for people that grew up in the pre-engine era. it felt like pre-engine chess had a lot of mystique to it because knowing…

>> I was apart of the "covid chess cohort" and got really into it for quite a few years. In that time, I also learned about what the chess culture was like pre-engine and post-engine, and I think you could argue that post-engine did kind of make the game more mechanical - and that kinda ruined things for people that grew up in the pre-engine era. it felt like pre-engine chess had a lot of mystique to it because knowing the best move was never truly clear. the only way to know what was best, was by: getting better yourself, socializing at chess club, learning from better players or coach.

I need to be very precise here, but it is not right to say that we know what the best move is in any chess board position. What we know is what move a chess engine would make that would win the game against a human, or sometimes another chess engine. We know a winning move; not the best move.

Winning in chess is not the same as knowing what the best move is. Having chess engines that can beat any human in chess is not the same as knowing how every possible game will develop. The latter is known as "solving chess" and we don't yet have that. We have fully solved games like tic-tac-toe, backgammon and checkers, so that there exist databases of every possible path through those games but this is not done for chess, and there is no hint that it is even possible to do given that chess is such a combinatorially more complex game than those.

More to the point, the upshot of the fact that we now have super-human chess engines that can beat any human in chess (and Go and shoggi) is that there is no longer the will to research the bigger question about solving chess. The solution of the minor problem, how to beat humans in chess, has sidelined and displaced research in the major problem, how to solve chess, and we will now never find the solution to the latter.

And if that reminds you of something, well, yes, exactly.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#935
post #665

I never expected this many people (on this thread) arguing semantics and what not. I know that not everyone has morality and ethics, but I didn't realize it was this bad. I'm afraid of the ripple effect of the agenda pushed by AI companies will have. In future and even now, they say AI has significantly progressed math and scientific research in general. There is truth to this, but the narrative has done more damage…

This really resonates with me. I'm early in my PhD and I'm researching a niche form of data compression and IC design. I don't use any AI at all in my research, I do it the super old fashioned way, I read papers cover to cover and sections of textbooks to familiarise myself with the field. I genuinely enjoy doing this, it's really fun to think critically about what an author wrote or how a particular approach works.…

I’m no big AI cheerleader, but why don’t you try these models to see what they offer - they might suggest some things you haven’t thought of, or save you some time in your research.

Are you sure they’d one-shot your algorithm? Maybe they’d come up with worse, maybe better, but you are in a perfect position to actually judge the validity of any claims a LLM makes in this realm, which most people are not.

As to why bother; our knowledge will keep expanding even with new tools, don’t believe either the hype or the predictions of doom.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#936
post #665

I never expected this many people (on this thread) arguing semantics and what not. I know that not everyone has morality and ethics, but I didn't realize it was this bad. I'm afraid of the ripple effect of the agenda pushed by AI companies will have. In future and even now, they say AI has significantly progressed math and scientific research in general. There is truth to this, but the narrative has done more damage…

Academia has been a toxic wasteland for decades. The ship caught fire and sunk long before open AI strip minded it prestige.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#937
post #665

I never expected this many people (on this thread) arguing semantics and what not. I know that not everyone has morality and ethics, but I didn't realize it was this bad. I'm afraid of the ripple effect of the agenda pushed by AI companies will have. In future and even now, they say AI has significantly progressed math and scientific research in general. There is truth to this, but the narrative has done more damage…

Academia has been a toxic wasteland for decades. The ship caught fire and sunk long before open AI strip minded it prestige.

Oh, the patient is ill. Let's kill the patient.

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#939
post #881
post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But solving math problems is not the same as increasing understanding of math concepts.

Applications don't care whether the math was proven and understood by humans or computers. Your algorithm will get faster no matter where the insight came from.

to be honest it is difficult to discuss with someone who doesn't even try to understand the basics of basic science (and how it compares with _applied_ sicence), yet talks with so much confidence. even the solution to navier stokes won't have an immediate practical effect...

Re: A misalignment of AI in mathematics

#940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Perhaps humanity would be better off if we instituted and enforced the notion of "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind." It's worth thinking about; just because we can build AI systems doesn't mean we should.

The problem with technology is that the people who have it conquer and kill all the people who don't, essentially ensuring a destructive race to the bottom. You would need a mutual international alliance of nations who not only renounce the technology but also agree to invade anyone who attempts to develop it. Our closest precedent is nuclear weapons, but rather than renouncing them, the US's position is that "only w…

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