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Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

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Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#61

Post by JuniperMesos »

Dlemlo wrote: post #58
ccamrobertson wrote: post #17

While I pine for a dark sky, it makes sense that these operations should move in the same way century old optical telescopes in cities are no longer used for cutting edge science. The far side of the moon seems like an increasingly viable option.

So because 10 Million people want to have internet, 8 Billion people no longer get acccess to that resource? That sounds like a nice attitude from you.

There's a lot fewer than 8 billion people who have access to the resource of "radio astronomy". I suspect it is in fact less than the 10 million figure of people who might want to use satellite-provided internet.

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#62

Post by beloch »

ccamrobertson wrote: post #17

While I pine for a dark sky, it makes sense that these operations should move in the same way century old optical telescopes in cities are no longer used for cutting edge science. The far side of the moon seems like an increasingly viable option.

People need light to see in cities. This light serves a function.

Starlink satellites are emitting unintended and useless EMR that serves no function. It is not necessary for the function of these satellites.

This is a money issue. The question you should ask is whether it will cost more for SpaceX to fix their satellites than it will to build radio telescopes (which are not small devices) in space. Personally, I suspect launching radio telescopes into space will not be the cheaper solution.

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#63

Post by JuniperMesos »

stackghost wrote: post #33
RockRobotRock wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a human that just so happens to disagree with you. I don’t like Elon either, but what I dislike more is that it’s impossible to talk about any of his companies without people like you assuming my motives.

What precisely are your motives, then? The umpteenth example of Musk companies behaving poorly and here you come to suggest that we can’t let pesky things like science stand in the way of “the internet”. As if Starlink services is synonymous with the internet itself. The implication is clear, to me at least.

Yeah Starlink is clearly so much better than the satellite internet that came before it that I think it's reasonable to want to expand it, even at the cost of making radio astronomy on Earth's surface harder. Fast, reliable internet access in places where it's infeasible to string high-bandwidth physical connections is a pretty valuable human good, and radio astronomy can be done in space (perhaps using technology similar to Starlink satellites themselves!).

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#64

Post by stackghost »

dylan604 wrote: post #35
stackghost wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also in darkness for 2 weeks. Terrestrial radio telescopes experience sunlight too. That would seem to be a solved problem.

and the moon is over 200°F in that sunlight.

So, less than the boiling temp of water. That is not outside the realm of solvable problems

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#65

Post by femto »

bob1029 wrote: post #56

There is some evidence that little engineering effort has been put into mitigating this problem. I think if someone actually tried really hard we could make these birds a lot quieter. > We compared the detected power flux densities of this UEMR to that emitted by the first generation v1.0 and v1.5 Starlink satellites. When correcting for the observed satellite distances, we find that the second-generation satellites…

There's probably a reason for that.

> Current ITU regulations ignore unintended satellite hardware leakage, leaving astronomers without legal protection.

Oh, what a coincidence.

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#66

Post by ButlerianJihad »

ccamrobertson wrote: post #17

While I pine for a dark sky, it makes sense that these operations should move in the same way century old optical telescopes in cities are no longer used for cutting edge science. The far side of the moon seems like an increasingly viable option.

Instruments on the far side of the Moon will need some communication with Earth. While you can fantasize about running very long surface cables, the common solution consists of orbiting communications satellites.

There are currently at least 8 satellites orbiting the Moon. We can expect that number to increase. Also to add to the excitement, when a satellite deorbits there, it will never slow down, burn, fall into water, or disintegrate. Just one big hunk of equipment impacting at full speed. Enjoy your craters.

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#67

Post by lukeify »

RockRobotRock wrote: post #6

maybe Internet for people on earth matters more than astronomy

As if most people use the Internet for proper utility and not just creating and consuming outrage-bait and slop. Suddenly the cost-benefit of "internet for people on earth" seems a lot less genuine.

You need surprisingly little bandwidth to send and receive messages, make calls, and read the news.

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#68

Post by RockRobotRock »

lokar wrote: post #44
bcraven wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were that the case, there would have been nobody buying Starlink. As they are, I think you are wrong.

My neighborhood has both cable and fiber, both >= 1Gbps, fairly cheap My neighbor has starlink. I assume because they are MAGA.

okay for real, i think you have elon derangement syndrome.

Re: Starlink Signal Leakage Threatens Radio Astronomy's Most Critical Frequencies

#69

Post by RockRobotRock »

Dlemlo wrote: post #59
RockRobotRock wrote: post #6

maybe Internet for people on earth matters more than astronomy

Maybe but people already had plenty of internet before Starlink. Everyone i know who is using starlink doesn't use starlink because htey need starlink for internet.

Is that because everyone you know lives in a high-wealth country/area?
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