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Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

science.org

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Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#41

Post by whakim »

theturtletalks wrote: post #10

I read many years ago that psychedelics are what lead to the formation of consciousness. And it’s supported by the fact that psychedelics are also a network like the brain is. And when taking them, your brain experiences plasticity and that’s what allows profound changes. A big part of our consciousness is the default mode network (which is a default of how we operate day to day, things we think about, etc). Psychede…

There are a number of problems with these statements, but a major one is that psychedelics are associated with reduced activity within the DMN (but increased activity between the DMN and other networks). It is not clear the direction in which this causality runs.

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#42

Post by boothby »

theturtletalks wrote: post #36
boothby wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth is a crystal, and crystals vibrate in synchronous harmonicity. What does this tell us about meth? ... no, the fact that some hallucinogens are derived from fungi does not give rise to consciousness. I accept that you read that somewhere; that does not make it true. But, really bad ideas do seem like amazing epiphanies if you're under the influence!

Nice strawman you got there. Meth is a man made synthetic compound. Fungi cover this earth and are one of the few natural drugs that cause brain elasticity and can cause personality change. The theory is real and, of course, controversial[0]. The formation of consciousness is still a mystery and I’m simply discussing a theory. If you have another theory you deem right, let’s argue on merit, not personal attacks. 0. h…

A theory can be "real" in the sense that people believe it, and also controversial because it has little consistent evidence behind it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Nowhere in my comment did I attack you personally. I made an analogous argument; reductio ad absurdum. LSD is also a man-made synthetic compound, and promotes neuroplacticity. And if you've ever known a meth addict, you'll know that the substance can cause significant and enduring personality change.

You're advancing a pseudoscientific theory, and I'm ripping it on its utter lack of merit. Please don't take that personally.

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#43

Post by quchen »

boothby wrote: post #27
theturtletalks wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but my point isn’t that. It’s that fungi operate as an interconnected network so it makes the connection between them, neural networks, and consciousness interesting.

Meth is a crystal, and crystals vibrate in synchronous harmonicity. What does this tell us about meth? ... no, the fact that some hallucinogens are derived from fungi does not give rise to consciousness. I accept that you read that somewhere; that does not make it true. But, really bad ideas do seem like amazing epiphanies if you're under the influence!

Or take DMT as a crystalline, naturally produced substance. As far as I know, there's no Methamphetamine in nature, although I've become very careful with the terms none/all in biology.

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#44

Post by nephihaha »

anramon wrote: post #35
theturtletalks wrote: post #10

I read many years ago that psychedelics are what lead to the formation of consciousness. And it’s supported by the fact that psychedelics are also a network like the brain is. And when taking them, your brain experiences plasticity and that’s what allows profound changes. A big part of our consciousness is the default mode network (which is a default of how we operate day to day, things we think about, etc). Psychede…

> psychedelics are what lead to the formation of consciousness This reads like recycled lamarckism.

"This reads like recycled lamarckism."

Recycled Lamarckianism would be Lysenkoism. :)

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#45

Post by adzm »

baxtr wrote: post #3

Didn’t mind-altering drugs like alcohol play a key role in the rise of any civilization?

Alcohol and fermentation have a much different role with food safety and preservation though; the inebriation is just a pleasant side effect for some (and a curse for others)

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#46

Post by slowin »

It's thought that a lot of the geometric designs in Indigenous pottery and architecture are directly influenced by hallucinogenic plants like datura.

There's a really great YouTube channel called Desert Lore and he covers this topic in depth in this episode. It was really fascinating:

https://youtu.be/Vp4JlUEnPTs?si=j8gH0WnHRpeo1BJu

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#47

Post by BigTTYGothGF »

theturtletalks wrote: post #10

I read many years ago that psychedelics are what lead to the formation of consciousness. And it’s supported by the fact that psychedelics are also a network like the brain is. And when taking them, your brain experiences plasticity and that’s what allows profound changes. A big part of our consciousness is the default mode network (which is a default of how we operate day to day, things we think about, etc). Psychede…

> I read many years ago that psychedelics are what lead to the formation of consciousness

I have never taken psychedelics but I believe myself to be conscious.

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#49

Post by cobbzilla »

LoganDark wrote: post #9
baxtr wrote: post #3

Didn’t mind-altering drugs like alcohol play a key role in the rise of any civilization?

Alcohol is a poison, not a drug, but I also think so. I honestly wish mind-altering drugs were more accessible sometimes, mostly because of safety. Millions are killed by adulterants in their street drugs.

It’s much more of a poison to some of our primate relatives. iirc the genes that facilitate alcohol metabolism evolved in great apes millions of years before homo sapiens, and we inherited them; we’ve been boozing long before we were even human.

Re: Psychoactive substances helped spur Andean civilization

#50

Post by theplumber »

clickety_clack wrote: post #2

Given that many of our current-day subterranean environments are also covered in art and strewn with drug paraphernalia, can we really say that it played a key role in the rise of the civilization?

Yeah, like this zombie civilisation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i2k7KQ5L5Jg I am not sure if you can say it’s raising or falling by their posture
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