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Feeling Sad about AI

artificialworlds.net

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Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#181
post #145
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't ride a horse from New York to Washington DC today, and it hasn't been possible for almost 100 years. So enjoy the manual coding while you can. I don't hold out hope that it will be possible in the long run.

Looks like you can walk it, so horse is likely to work, too? https://maps.app.goo.gl/BX26xVTL2HsBxqPH6

You can't cross the Hudson. Every crossing bans ridden animals. If you can find a ferry to take your horse I'll concede the point. But...good luck.

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#182
I personally don't understand what's bad about AI being able to do much of the route, boring, crappy parts of programming. The same way SAP, salesforce, etc were never good products from the point of view of a company, other than enabling a corporate workflow and legal compliance, that was needlessly complex, they still got used when for a fraction of the "subscription" + consultants a better more fit to purpose solution could have been built - much leaner and meaner and to the point, actually enabling empowerment of the company's staff and market differentiation. AI without proper guidance will be the same.

Just a few days ago I checked out https://colonist.io due to it having some open positions (saw here on hn "who's hiring"), it's all AI driven, but it looks and feels awful. Perhaps that's the original catan playing experience but I for sure wouldn't want future software to be like this. Even when using AI, even looking at that, I know it's possible to do much better with AI, it's just that it won't by itself so I don't think there will be a lack of opportunities for those that are into building stuff.

It's actually amazing that an AI can guide me through a mountain of incongruent, difficult to use and understand without years of study, nerd interfaces and programming decisions others have made and allow me to try out a complete new OS (for instance microOS) and write a WebGL tile drawing engine. At the same time, it still stumbles with simple stuff, while at the same time being able to generate a JS + wasm tile game skeleton. But when you look at the skeleton it's actually not that amazing and you can see the training/stolen code leaking everywhere, things you didn't ask are there too, choices are made for things that weren't present in the specs/prompts when they weren't needed either... The upside is that it cost me $0.02. But to be decent I need to spec it properly. I need to know how and why it sucks, and how and why to make it not suck, even if when writing out a spec.

I don't have a horse in this race, I know this architecture can't lead to AGI, it could theoretically solve programming (in absolute), but it doesn't seem so either due to the nature of LLMs. What will happen is that it will be "SAP/salesforce" software for everyone. To be honest, it mostly sucks already and that's not fault of the AI models. What I guess you won't be able to do is charge enough to pay your house on a business model of switching CSS colors, or doing wordpress updates, and pretending you're some sort of wizard and that pounding sand activity is worth what you were being paid.

I think that those who want to build things will have way more leverage and reach than ever. Maybe not in a corporate environment - as the same **** that would tangle basic stuff into 2 weeks of work, instead of a single afternoon may actually be more savvy politically to keep their positions - but everywhere else it feels like it will be so.

And even in other aspects. I paid a bit more than $3k to different artists as freelancers for getting in total less than 100 images for my game ($30-$45/img), of which, prior to finding an artist that was actually willing to listen and do what I asked, was about 70% not worth even the small amount I was paying. With that artist the rate of satisfaction went up, but still not always as I had envisioned. Some of the first artists I worked with were just plain stupid to work with even though I was paying them ok (taking into account their countries). With AI, even though it's mostly built out of stolen work, with a yearly sub to any of those image gen platforms, I did in 2 months more than 2k images of which maybe 1k was usable and I was way happier with them... for about $24. I left thousands of images in credits unused for about $120/year.

There's just so many things that don't require an artist but instead adherence to a spec under a known guard-railed path. This does suck for the artist himself, it does suck for me too since my hourly rates got butchered too, but as a creator, this is all amazing - as long as we get local, free models. For the artists and programmers that were just milking it - well, you kinda prompted this, no pun intended.

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#183

This points to the bigger issue of people tying their value and identity to their livelihood. There is way too much clout, ego and identity chasing going on in all informational fields. If you instead identified as a parent, as a hobbyist programmer, as a rock climber, as a learner, as a meditator, in essence as anything that is not directly tied to your occupation, you don't have anything to worry or be sad about. T…

>you don't have anything to worry or be sad about

Except you know, if you lose your occupation feeding the kids and paying for a roof over their head becomes a bit difficult.

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#184
on the other hand I see a problem with the people's sentiment. especially at Plattforms like reddit. I am a huge fan of all this progress. write a few apps from the scratch and thought myself even new programming languages for it. nowadays the work shifts to a higher level. making decisions about architecture and so on. ofc there's always the pitfall of letting the AI rule but if you put brain effort in it, it's so much easier to get something that already works quite well how you imagined it. however on the other hand there are all those people who haven't used it, seeing all those new software project coming out of nowhere and can't really judge how much work is behind a tool or not. people start rage bait like crazy even up to an amount that people already told me they've left reddit because of all this negativity. ofc many things are vibe coded. exactly those things which can be done quickly quite good and which the person in charge may not be the very best person. the problem is that people can't judge the architecture behind it and start calling almost everything AI slop.... sad times

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#185
post #66

I'm not sure how useful it is to say this, but I think a lot of people (myself included, a few years ago now) have been through this moment of existential crisis and come out the other side. The initial reaction, when some coding agent does a piece of work that would have taken you a week in an hour and does it well , is to be very disheartened by it. Once you come to terms with the idea that translating an exact spe…

> I'm not sure how useful it is to say this

I have to be honest and say it's not very useful for me to hear you say this because you make your living from AI consulting and in a previous thread [1] you said that you don't review the code and then that you do. I'm not saying you have psychosis but your take on AI is inconsistent and confusing to me.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49179477

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#186
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s going to be one of the biggest impacts of AI in society. We will need to find new ways to occupy our time and find meaning in life once machines can do everything better, faster, and cheaper. What will it look like? Will everybody spend their time playing sports and games? Or on art? Perhaps exploring the solar system or beyond if our technology advances enough? Quite a time to be alive to even have to…

Large swaths of the population have more free time than ever before and they spend most of it scrolling. I am pessimistic

Well that’s because most people work all day and come home tired. It’s tough to self actualize when you’re too tired to think.

And I don’t even know if it’s true that people have more free time. A lot of people have side hustles like Uber or whatever to make extra money.

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#187
post #66

I'm not sure how useful it is to say this, but I think a lot of people (myself included, a few years ago now) have been through this moment of existential crisis and come out the other side. The initial reaction, when some coding agent does a piece of work that would have taken you a week in an hour and does it well , is to be very disheartened by it. Once you come to terms with the idea that translating an exact spe…

> set of problems that you face as a software engineer and realize that there is so much left

Definitely true at this exact moment, but very uncertain that AI won't also outrun those other areas faster than even existing experts.

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#188

so you are sad becuase you will not be respected? tbh i don't think that is valid. same thing happened during the industrail revolution. Just move on to do what matters. if coding is taken away by a model then build the models yourself atleast what every you can do with your resources. The problem here is that you are reluctant to change and you cannot put the effort to change yourself. you are lazy. that is the prob…

I think you're being overly harsh. I don't match his temperament at all because my first real skillset(WoW :D) was literally looked down on by society rather than admired, so if anything the contrast was confusing to me to have a skillset that has value.

However i can't imagine if during my WoW days, overnight my role was suddenly just replaced with someone doing my role and 4 other roles highly automated, with just a general knowledge instead of an absurd depth into one role, and all my peers thought i was being lazy for not wanting to automate as well.

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disenfranchising everyone at once beats disenfranchising enough to be a problem but not enough to motivate a solution, which is what the drip feeding achieves.

I don't have any trust that the people left standing will ever be motivated enough to figure out a solution that doesn't involve letting the rest of us starve or actively having us killed

Given the rate of progress in robotics, if AI works then there won't be anyone left standing to worry about.

That's the whole point of doing it fast, otherwise yes they will attempt to slow things down so they can take advantage of the intermediate state where some are still standing, temporarily, to get rid of the others. And that is very much what a lot of the current pausing noise is in aid of.

Re: Feeling Sad about AI

#190
post #173
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Please don't think that way. I don't know how to reach you personally, but please take a look at this article: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/suicidal-tho... I pray it helps you. We're much more than any economic system. The sun still shines. There's a lot out in the world to see. Even in the worst case scenario, that we're all jobless. There are mountains to explore. Beaches to walk. Forests to…

I have to admit, as a former JW, the linked article is actually not proselytizing, instead it's actually got worthwhile advice. We are each here for a reason and we all touch many lives. We may not ever know, while we're on this earth, many of the important roles we play, just by being ourselves.

I'll add. I once got stopped by a bunch of JW. And I wanted to practice my Dutch, and they were willing to talk to me in Dutch.

They showed me a video about depression. And it was actually exceptionally good advice. It spoke about speaking to a therapist. There was a small bit about prayer, which was obviously not my bag. But I was pleasantly surprised at how grounded the advice was.

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