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The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

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Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tough call but I'm not sure if physicist code or electronic engineer code is more frightening.

As an EE, I can say that code written by EEs might be frightening, but electronics built by coders is often shocking.

Meaning, you wouldn't touch it with a ten feet pole?

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#182
post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

> It’s making me want to be a lot less collaborative with such individuals. I don’t want to sit around and refute Claude text outputs all day.

There are also the guys who are just blatantly meat proxies for Claude. You send them a message, and you get back a response that's all Claude (and disorganized and not really making sense to boot).

I've got one on an affiliated team and I basically don't want to collaborate with him at all anymore.

But you know, "AI is the future of work," and all that. Those guys get a pat on the head by higher-ups and probably think they're doing what they're supposed to.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#183
post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

What do you suggest these people do instead? I’ve been frustrated by this recently: I pivoted to a new subfield and am working on stuff that I would love to dive deep into and really learn what is going on so I can speak intelligently about the tradeoffs etc. But that would take a long time, and I have tasks that I should get done. So I have found myself working with a pretty vague understanding that, when pressed by…

Read some books on the subject and within a year in this new domain you'll be much better. Did you forget your whole life before the last 3 years?

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#184
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just dismissal via association or what was your point?

The absolute trolling that goes on here is related to the point. You are entirely capable of checking what I wrote but insist on trying to drag this out with straw men and misinterpretations. Of course people like you have a problem with AI since it will help everyone else move on and ignore you.

You are reacting emotionally and making baseless accusations about how I’m somehow going to be “left behind” based on nothing much in particular. And this is in response to me questioning it’s not a bit absurd to dismiss thousands of members of the public turning up and participating in local democracy opposing data centres with “faceless bureaucrats”. I’d take your flailing insults to heart if I respected your opinion but you already discredited yourself before you reached for the boring “luddite” accusations.

As for you complaining about straw men and misreadings etc, If you aren’t able to communicate clearly that’s a you problem.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#185
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you suggest these people do instead? I’ve been frustrated by this recently: I pivoted to a new subfield and am working on stuff that I would love to dive deep into and really learn what is going on so I can speak intelligently about the tradeoffs etc. But that would take a long time, and I have tasks that I should get done. So I have found myself working with a pretty vague understanding that, when pressed by…

Read some books on the subject and within a year in this new domain you'll be much better. Did you forget your whole life before the last 3 years?

Yes, certainly, in a year I’ll be better. But in the meantime…? 3 years ago it would be understandable for me to take my time with the tasks I’m doing because they are complex. Now it would be unreasonable for me to spend enough time to understand the nuances.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#186
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM tools tend confirm what you come to them with, be it unfounded conviction or doubt. I find them quite useless to tell me things I don't know, as verifying what they say shows that any non-trivial claims they make are usually oversimplified or plain wrong. Anything more than using them to just pointing me to media and literature is usually a waste of time.

That's interesting. Lately I have found the exact opposite to be true; the frontier models are quite disagreeable and require some convincing

Inverted bias doesn't change much my view in practical terms

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like your sibling comment I saw this mainly with physics people doing data science: > Eventually you have to understand something. And part of that process is being wrong and annoying people. There is nothing more frustrating as a colleague than having a smart person walk in, insist you're all wrong, and then burn all the energy and goodwill in the organisation having to rebuild absolutely everything from the princip…

But there is a difference between not listening to experience and examining whether the resulting implementation/decisions based on the experience are actually valid. I doubt that someone smart (as you put it) would deliberately want things redone because they don't understand it, that's a trait borne of arrogance not intelligence. At least in my experience (as a physics grad), me and all my fellow grads are much mor…

> I doubt that someone smart (as you put it) would deliberately want things redone because they don't understand it

You're actually doing the problem behavior right here: denying the validity of the experience of seeing exactly this happen, not as a one off, but repeatedly in completely separate situations and institutions.

> that's a trait borne of arrogance not intelligence.

I mean the problem is they're arrogant. The two aren't mutually exclusive, far from it.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#188
post #32

I work at an intersection of tech, applied research, and science. Something I’ve noticed in collaboration that does occur is an increased confidence in people outside their domains to say things with conviction. I have people who have limited experience with software pushing out layers and layers of abstracted code that’s fairly sophisticated but often misguided in intent who will say what they’re doing is correct, w…

What do you suggest these people do instead? I’ve been frustrated by this recently: I pivoted to a new subfield and am working on stuff that I would love to dive deep into and really learn what is going on so I can speak intelligently about the tradeoffs etc. But that would take a long time, and I have tasks that I should get done. So I have found myself working with a pretty vague understanding that, when pressed by…

I'm not GP, but I've been experiencing this too. All my coworkers are in the same boat though, so we don't really have anyone with the deep understanding. Our approach (which has been working pretty well, we've solved a lot of problems and learned some along the way) has been to use AI as an informer who also points us to sources (like documentation, github issues, etc) where we can then read up on something the AI has pointed us at. We try to time box things a bit to prevent going down the rabbit hole, so we don't always get to exhaust our curiosity, but we're continually gaining that knowledge and pressing forward. Most recent example is tuning the kernel settings and our app on our prod machines to behave better for WebRTC packet handling/forwarding. AI for things like ffmpeg has been a god send when nobody on the team is an ffmpeg expert.

I've also had success just asking claude to write documentation on a system or subsystem or module, etc, and reading that. I then sometimes have it turn that into an svg diagram or something visual that often helps understand things. That domain-specific knowledge is hard to gain though, so not a silver bullet by any stretch.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#189
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted you to be wrong, and to be able to make this an example of us over-reacting to certain trigger words created by AI, but unfortunately I just scanned the first couple paragraphs with pangram and it reported 100% AI, so you're probably correct. I get a funny feeling in my stomach over the idea that common and effective means of communication (i.e. it's not X it's Y) have become faux pas to use because of AI. I…

All these "is this AI" checkers should be banned, as they never can reach 100% accuracy.

They are overrepresented in HN discussions for sure as there is an over-reliance on them that just aims to shut down discussions.

Which is ironic since they are a tool folks are trusting blindly supposedly used to argue against tool use with blind trust.

Re: The Waymo effect: how AI is quietly making research less collaborative

#190
post #4

This article is written by an LLM, by the way. ("Quietly" is... as Claude might put it... "often the quiet tell".)

Is "quietly" an LLM tell? It was always certainly a human writer trope commonly seen in journalism. Though I guess it does appear five times in the body of the post, and a human writer would probably not go that far with it.

The real LLM tell is tortured and inappropriate metaphors and unnecessary adjectives and adverbs[1]. What purpose is "quietly" serving in this headline?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgKY9AlybA

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