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Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

rustfoundation.org

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Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#471
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their message begins with "As an embedded dev"

"embedded" is very vague though. The problem is that both the guy writing PIC machine code for a $5 thermostat and the guy who wrote some Python running on the Linux box inside a Times Square moving advert think they're "an embedded dev".

Regardless, neither HPC or HFT are "embedded"

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In real world systems, Java can beat programs in compiled languages like C++ and Rust when it comes to throughput and even latency.

This is so untrue I still don't know how anyone can even claim this. When I run tests in Rust, the biggest portion of the time is spent compiling the test (lets say 3-4 seconds), then the tests conclude practically instantly, in less than half a second. Meanwhile when I run tests on my JVM projects it can take 30 seconds just to start and the test execution is extremely slow too. Even if you do manage to match the pe…

> In real world systems

A poet can beauty in any language.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native AOT with C#/.net has come a long way, fwiw. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/nati...

Some deployments can be AOT compiled (ASP.NET, mobile), others (like WinForms, WPF) cannot. That makes it confusing and fickle since not all language features work with AOT. Microsoft needs to choose for AOT Full Monty and leave the CLR behind.

The CLR is the reason most C# games are moddable.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#475

I hope announcements like this show that Rust is not a fledgling little language that moves fast and breaks things anymore. It's a mature, serious competitor to well established languages like C++ and C#. This is particularly important when trying to compare the experience of using Rust to other languages in the "better C/C++" space like Zig and Odin -- these are much newer and have more rough edges than Rust.

Get back to me when Rust has a stable ABI and can produce dynamically linked binaries.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#476
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs are unusually good at Rust; it's an optimization target. And the constraints provided by "successfully compile with the Rust compiler" make it work well for agent iteration. (I have mixed feelings about that, but empirically it holds true.)

Yes, I found these agents to be better at producing acceptable Rust than at producing acceptable Python code. In addition to the Rust compiler, you can also tell them to make clippy happy. Both in normal mode or if you are feeling nitpicky, you can also tell them to make clippy::pedantic happy.

FWIW, I wouldn't recommend turning on all of `clippy::pedantic` as a unit. It's a category of lints, but some of them have much more value than others, and turning them all on may make your experience of Rust feel unpleasant and nitpicky.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#477
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing forest service stuff for a year with almost no signal and often no gps without antenna and it's incredible what asks for location permission to run. My amazon bought LEDs (15+, 3-5 diff types) all check location before I can connect them. I wind up waiting 30 seconds sometimes more to turn lights on. My generator and inverter have to phone home so that lags constantly. Also I've been shadowbanned from…

I'm sure at least some of those macOS permissions prompts are spurious, but for the most part I think they're genuine red flags of poor software quality if not actual security/privacy threats. When a video game prompts for full disk access, it's probably because it wants to spray config and save files all over my home directory instead of putting them in a platform-appropriate location. When it triggers a permissions…

[deleted]

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At work we're moving almost everything to Rust on our backend. Massively reduced memory usage and significant latency improvements relative to our Typescript codebase. Even for code that you'd expect to work well in TS, a near 1 to 1 port to Rust has considerably improved our best case and, in particular, our worst case latencies. And the memory we get back is huge, we may even drop our instance size down with the 80…

To be fair, it's not that hard to get an improvement compared to running TS in the backend.

I agree, but I think most people actually don't think that's true when it comes to services that primarily do IO.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#479
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing forest service stuff for a year with almost no signal and often no gps without antenna and it's incredible what asks for location permission to run. My amazon bought LEDs (15+, 3-5 diff types) all check location before I can connect them. I wind up waiting 30 seconds sometimes more to turn lights on. My generator and inverter have to phone home so that lags constantly. Also I've been shadowbanned from…

I'm sure at least some of those macOS permissions prompts are spurious, but for the most part I think they're genuine red flags of poor software quality if not actual security/privacy threats. When a video game prompts for full disk access, it's probably because it wants to spray config and save files all over my home directory instead of putting them in a platform-appropriate location. When it triggers a permissions…

My point is that the notifications are less specific now, so whether or not someone is being a normal dev, which nearly all if not all of them are in my experience, you still get a giant "FULL DISK ACCESS" because a game wants access to your download directory or something ridiculous. The errors used to be worth stopping to check things for. The OS shouldn't be scaring a user from running an application that broadly, they just become red herring alerts that people stop paying attention to.

You're of course correct in the os APIs, etc, my frustration comes when you're modding games and what not and the Apple notifications make it sound like you're giving your system to the app, when it IS acting for the low permission.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#480

I've been writing Rust professionally for the last 5 years (where my first decade of professional experience started in frontend, then moved down the stack TypeScript/Node, Go, C# and so on). From the perspective of high level application development, I can't see a technical use case for a language other than Rust these days. If wasm worked (and MacOS/Windows/Android/iOS native UI support existed), I would write my b…

> From the perspective of high level application development, I can't see a technical use case for a language other than Rust these days. What is wrong with C# and WinForms/WPF? It is an excellent platform to write enterprise desktop apps. Also, developer efficiency is way higher in C# compared to Rust. The language is much simpler, and the VM supports garbage collection. Again: For enterprise apps this is a big win.

I do have fond feelings towards winforms and wpf from years ago, but I can't use it to write cross platform applications.

There really isn't anything other than web that covers that use case, sadly.

C# still has runtime exceptions and race conditions.

With Rust, once you figure out the borrow checker (which is honestly pretty simple), you're at least as productive but with fewer bugs

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