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Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

rustfoundation.org

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Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#391

Post by bpye »

alkonaut wrote: post #390

Conversion of legacy nontrivial C++ code bases into Rust (or anything else for that matter) feels like it should be one of the "Millenium problems" for AGI. That and full self driving - including the nuances of gesturing to a human about who's going to reverse in a single lane in a snowstorm. But if 50% of code can be converted automatically to safe idiomatic Rust? Great. Doesn't sound too far fetched. But yes, there…

> Conversion of legacy nontrivial C++ code bases into Rust (or anything else for that matter) feels like it should be one of the "Millenium problems" for AGI.

Whilst I have no doubt that LLMs will be useful here, I still have reservations about validation. I think experience tells us that test coverage is generally insufficient to ensure functional equivalence, and not all components are well specified.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#392

Post by Jean-Papoulos »

alkonaut wrote: post #390

Conversion of legacy nontrivial C++ code bases into Rust (or anything else for that matter) feels like it should be one of the "Millenium problems" for AGI. That and full self driving - including the nuances of gesturing to a human about who's going to reverse in a single lane in a snowstorm. But if 50% of code can be converted automatically to safe idiomatic Rust? Great. Doesn't sound too far fetched. But yes, there…

If we have AGI, it can just solve all the memory issues in the existing codebase instead of rewriting it all.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#393

Post by pocksuppet »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #134
meerita wrote: post #16

Good news they adopted Rust as Tier-1 language. I hope their Weather app stop consuming more than 1GB RAM https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windows-11-s-built-in-Weather-...

Calling the Weather app an 'app' is doing all the Win32, WPF, WinForms and WinUI developers a huge disservice. It is essentially an entire Chromium instance around msn.com/weather.

That is how apps work in 2016 onwards (the last decade).

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#395

Post by azhenley »

bpye wrote: post #391
alkonaut wrote: post #390

Conversion of legacy nontrivial C++ code bases into Rust (or anything else for that matter) feels like it should be one of the "Millenium problems" for AGI. That and full self driving - including the nuances of gesturing to a human about who's going to reverse in a single lane in a snowstorm. But if 50% of code can be converted automatically to safe idiomatic Rust? Great. Doesn't sound too far fetched. But yes, there…

> Conversion of legacy nontrivial C++ code bases into Rust (or anything else for that matter) feels like it should be one of the "Millenium problems" for AGI. Whilst I have no doubt that LLMs will be useful here, I still have reservations about validation. I think experience tells us that test coverage is generally insufficient to ensure functional equivalence, and not all components are well specified.

ProgramBench was published recently where agents have to reconstruct a program given just the binary and documentation.

https://programbench.com/

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#396

Post by uncle_kostya »

abbefaria27 wrote: post #209

What’s the story for Rust-C++ interoperability these days? That’s what kills adoption. Most C++ devs I know like the idea of Rust, but no one is going to go rewrite 30 years of working code. It needs to be something you can incorporate gradually.

What we do at work is defined a clear boundary and use extern "C" functions in Rust to make them callable from C++, and the same for callbacks.

Required some effort but we're happy with the result.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#398

Post by isolay »

Barrin92 wrote: post #255
mr_00ff00 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question in terms of memory is, will vibe coded rust get around ownership issues by .clone()-ing everything. Maybe this has changed since I wrote Rust, but that was a classic beginner fix. Just throw memory at it.

The question to me in terms of memory is, if you're writing a weather app on windows why are you not using C#. The point of these low/zero overhead languages like Rust is you're in an environment where memory management is ultra critical. The dotnet garbage collector does more than a good enough job for a weather app, likely a much better one than vibe coded .clone() Rust Instead of oscillating between Rust and 1 GB…

Maybe they fired all their experienced developers and only have cheap vibecoders now, I don’t know. The decisions of beancounters and lawyers that control these companies are mysterious to me.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#399

Post by hn_submit »

pjmlp wrote: post #3

This is very big news, all major OS vendors that also have a role in C and C++ language tooling, now have diversified their options in systems programming languages for greenfield development. Additionally we finally get some public news about the MSVC integration rumors regarding Rust.

I'm totally disgusted that my Visual Studio 2022 instance uses 2 Gigabytes (!!) of RAM to run. What the hell is it doing that it's using that kind of memory?

How about those morons solving that first before moving towards Rust. An IDE shouldn't have to use more than a 100MB of RAM tops. Anything more is inexcusable or needs a detailed explanation.

BTW Firefox uses 1.1GB RAM so it's not immune from criticism either.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#400

Post by germandiago »

tredre3 wrote: post #132
germandiago wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rapid prototyping is almost a meme at this point > People did this a lot when rust was not as popular but there are plenty of very good rust programmers now who understand the language and can make programs that are significantly more performance for a marginal development cost. Why isn't the game industry moving to it then? Bc it just cannot compete at volubility with C++, among other things. Yes, you can have ski…

> Why isn't the game industry moving to it then? Bc it just cannot compete at volubility with C++, among other things. I have no opinion regarding rust suitability as a game language, but your answer doesn't sound right. The actual reason is much simpler. The industry is built on a handful of game engines. Those engines are extended or scripted in C++ or C#. Thus the vast, vast majority of the work force will only ha…

> The actual reason is much simpler. The industry is built on a handful of game engines

This is a strong reason, but then why in other areas they consider it over C++ for greenfield but it hardly happens in games?

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