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Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

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Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#331

Post by meerita »

afdbcreid wrote: post #222
throwaway894345 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been having _a lot of fun_ writing Go apps that don't allocate anything and that use small, preallocated buffers to stream through requests/etc. Basically TigerStyle for Go. I don't use arenas, I just size everything for the worst case (or make the sizes configurable at startup) and still end up using much less memory. This is really only possible because I told Fable to build the underlying allocation-free HTTP…

> This has also been a lot less effort than writing Rust I have never written such Go, but as an experienced Rust programmer I can tell you Rust is not hard to write after learning it. Learning it can take more time than usual (although there is also contrary evidence, e.g. from Google) but after you're used to it, you're basically as proficient as in other languages, except some glitches (that can be expensive - rew…

I was a little bit scared at first, but after 1k lines of code written by hand I started to forget that Rust was complicated. It's not the Go experience, but it's not that bad at all.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#332

Post by odo1242 »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #312
odo1242 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A headwind makes it harder to advance in the direction you're going nit: except in aviation

Also in aviation, but with caveats; you want to take off and land with a headwind, because the headwind gives a greater airspeed which means greater lift.

Ah

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#333

Post by zamalek »

afdbcreid wrote: post #230
zamalek wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To Odin's credit, it is used for production software that _isn't_ a toy (by the language's own authors). It is probably 1.0 quality already.

Zig too. But this is far from being mainstream. Rust took around 5 years I think to become accepted in major companies, and those languages are harder to justify.

I've started distrusting anything good people have to say about Zig because of the wide variety of untrue claims made about it - unless those claims come from Andrew himself. Last time I was assured that compile-time memory guarantees were possible and were going to happen (they didn't: the recent announcement is runtime/debug assertions). Zig is still making massive breaking changes, and while that is not a bad thing, it makes it categorically _not_ production ready.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#334

Post by throwaway27448 »

zahlman wrote: post #212
throwaway27448 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's less about pie charts and more that weather apps can be very eyecandy-heavy. This sort of marketing works well for both consumers and board members.

1GB is space for almost half an hour of 5000kbps ("YouTube Premium") video. Just what kind of eye candy are we talking about here?

I have deep faith you can find the imagination with in you to understand

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#335

Post by JoshTriplett »

mokre wrote: post #308
gregw2 wrote: post #122

Those interested in this may find the following articles of interest: Microsoft goals [edit: err, Microsoft hiring manager vision-casting goal ] to convert 1 billion lines of code to rust by 2030 via automated tooling enabling "1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code": https://thenewstack.io/microsofts-bold-goal-replace-1b-lines... DARPA work towards automating converting C code to Rust using a mix of 6 differen…

What with this llms not so good in rust mantra? Something changed? In my experience they are pretty good, but haters gonna hate.

LLMs are unusually good at Rust; it's an optimization target. And the constraints provided by "successfully compile with the Rust compiler" make it work well for agent iteration.

(I have mixed feelings about that, but empirically it holds true.)

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#337

Post by devy »

fg137 wrote: post #302
devy wrote: post #162

This makes strategic sense in multiple ways: 1. Rust's memory safety design will help Microsoft improve a gigantic portfolios of products that have been known to have lots of CVEs and 70% of them are memory safety issues, according to Azure CTO Mark Russinovich's talk at RustCon last year.[1] 2. Windows 11's forceful push to retire millions of legacy PC hardware by putting Windows 10 EOL last October was absurd for m…

At least 67% of your comment has nothing to do with this article.

Aight! Fable 5.1 summary says this is about Microsoft built, self-hosts, and runs in production a proprietary-backend codegen for rustc that bypasses LLVM on Windows. The vehicle is rustc_codegen_utc, an alternative rustc backend in the same family as the LLVM, GCC, and Cranelift backends, wired to the MSVC backend ("UTC").

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#339

Post by throwaway27448 »

jshier wrote: post #295
throwaway27448 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The software can read from the phone without unlocking it?

After the first unlock after a reboot yes, except for those items with very high security (usually just keychain items) that require an unlock for every access. Lock screen items can be locked every time you lock the phone, or set to allow access while locked (after first unlock). Unfortunately this is an all or nothing setting, unless the widget specifically uses the redaction views to hide content. Oddly, I find th…

So—the widget doesn't function normally until the phone is unlocked?

I don't want to flex but that seems worth acknowledging from every perspective

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#340

Post by mkehrt »

afdbcreid wrote: post #285
mkehrt wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less one guy's plan and more one Microsoft Research team's research goal to investigate technologies that might enable that in a few years. So probably more institutional support than just some guy, but less actually planning on succeeding in the full ambitious goal.

No, after this made some waves he or some other senior (I don't remember exactly) reported that this is not an official plan.

Sorry, by "official support" I mean that there is support within MSR to investigate these tools as a research project, no that there is a plan to actually do the conversion.
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