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Can confirm, I had never heard of Navier-Stokes before this fiasco. And while I suspect OpenAI decided it was worth the risk for the public display of capability, this proves they are now directly competing against their own customers.
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More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
561–570 of 849 posts
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#562Doing some research and at this point doing it very much in the open with dates on GitHub so if any AI Lab says they re-discover my exact work it will be obvious that the AI used or was trained on my work. I am guessing anyone in a similar situation is now thinking about how they date their existing work if the math is done, but the proses are not.
Does it make sense to start privately and then open the repo after publication? Will the dates be retained? Also, isn't commit history easy to spoof?
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
OK, good to know (if they can be trusted - Altman clearly is a liar), but it doesn't really change the big picture much. 1) OpenAI by their own admission, only re-tackled Navier-Stokes because they heard it had already been solved (but not yet published). This isn't advancing science or helping the mathematical community, this is just being a dick. 2) OpenAI, specifically Sebastien Brubeck, then threaten to "not be n…
1. I would agree if the rumours were that some mathematician(s) had solved them, but the rumors alleged it was Anthropic. I don't really see what the big deal was. They had a new model that was going along great and wanted to test its mettle. 2. Yes Brubeck's comments were weird at face value. That said, Open AI's proof isn't a duplication of anything. Not only is Tristan's work a sub problem but the methods are diff…
> What sort of guidance do you think is happening in a 10k agent, 320b token, 88 hour run ? AI did this one
If you read the PDF release by Buckmaster, apparently the initial claim from Brubeck was that there as very little human input involved, then as the call progressed more and more people popped up that has been involved with it.
Does this aspect really matter? Not really, other than OpenAI wanting to present this as all the work of their model.
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https://cims.nyu.edu/~tristanb/statement.pdf
I was shown a prompt and told the internal research model had simply been given the problem statement. Levent had been told by Sebastien “very little human input” had been used. This turned out not to be true. Over the course of the call, as members of their team sent Sebastien corrections and details over their internal chat, it emerged that an entire team had been working on the problem, that this was one of a number of things that was tried, that work had started on the unforced problem, that the team first set the model on easier problems, including Euler, that even the prompt that had been shown to me had been written by prompting Codex, and that an insane amount of compute had been used.
I asked when the first prompt had been sent by them. This question was not answered directly by OpenAI for some time. Eventually it was agreed that it had been sent in the past few days, after information about our work had reached OpenAI.
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#564Doing some research and at this point doing it very much in the open with dates on GitHub so if any AI Lab says they re-discover my exact work it will be obvious that the AI used or was trained on my work. I am guessing anyone in a similar situation is now thinking about how they date their existing work if the math is done, but the proses are not.
That is what arxiv is about. We have been facing the same problem with review processes by before. Nothing all too specific here.
At least in my experience, the issue with ArXiv is that the expectation is that the draft should be already in a good enough state. And polishing plus writing the meat around the main result can take a lot of time
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#565"We can say categorically that it is impossible for Dr. Buckmaster’s Codex prompts over the last two months to have influenced the system in any way, including training." This is the third day of total hysteria that is based on nothing of substance. Move on folks.
Why should we trust them?
Because like all state-sponsored thieves actions it is never what you know happened that matters, but rather whether you can prove it... Even then... ymmv =3
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#566I think it's a useful analogy to compare OpenAI to a human collaborator. These researchers willingly collaborated with an OpenAI model, giving it ideas, and OpenAI provided useful replies. Then, OpenAI goes ahead and publishes work along the lines of this collaboration, without attributing the researchers. If OpenAI was in fact a human researcher, this would be highly unethical. Now, OpenAI is claiming that the model…
Bad analogy. OpenAI spent millions on compute to get their result. This is more like if a billionaire heard of your promising mathematical lead and then gathered hundreds of top mathematicians to work on it.
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not obvious to me that's an unethical thing to do In terms of work in mathematics, something I personally would not do based on ethical grounds would be to hear a rumor that some researchers are taking a certain approach and may be nearing a solution, use a model that was possibly contaminated with intimate knowledge about that approach (though later they investigated and think it wasn't), and then commit mill…
I heard they also tried to strong-arm them into removing the name of their collaborator who happened to work at a different company (Anthropic)... I haven't looked into it myself, but if true, that seems incredibly scummy.
The flip side is that the Anthropic researcher is clearly pushing the case against Open AI and one might have reason to suspect their motivation and version of events for the same reasons.
What a mess.
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#568[dead]
The corporate espionage ring targeting Apple also isn't a good look. A company that does that is a company that will lie to you about harvesting internal materials from your company.
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#569[deleted]
Re: More questions about whether researchers can trust OpenAI with unpublished math
#570I am not using any of these AI tools. I thought it was basically given that any single thing you write in these systems also used by the companies. On the other hand now I understand why there are so much projects about hosting AI systems locally.