OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
1–10 of 136 posts
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#2not to take away from the author's appreciation of newly accessible formal proofs, but people have been talking about the savings in formalization effort for longer than they have been talking about the AI doing the actual proofs!
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#3They estimated $40M of agent costs (it was a large fleet of them). Using the number in the post its closer to ~880,000 hours × $150/hour = $132 million for the human case. Still an amazing feat not quite "four orders of magnitude". The comparison is obviously pointless because coordinating 1M hours of intellectual labor isn't easy to say the least.
Very exciting and uncertain times!
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#4IMO the "forty hours per page" rule is not up to date, and more a consequence of lacking proof automation in 2005. From what I understand about Lean, this has been one of the things that they have put a lot of effort into improving, making proof mechanization more palatable to the mathematically inclined, as opposed to just logicians.
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#5People seem to be talking about anything except the actual results with this particular announcement.
Its still astonishing that any sort of generalized computer program can solve a problem of this magnitude, and we have witnessed it happening in real time. I'd be curious to see if the new model can also do more direct proofs/inductive proofs.
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#6Formalizing proofs in Lean has gotten dramatically easier since the formalizations available in 2005. And Lean’s mathlib has done most of the underlying work so that you have its axioms and necessary lemmas baked in. You can think in terms of standard abstractions that look very much like the exact notation in the undergrad textbook.
That said, I am not in any way trying to discount how incredible of an achievement it is to formalize a millennium prize winning algorithm in Lean. I mean just look at the code that OpenAI published. It’s like an encyclopedia of different fluid dynamics concepts.
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#7It's kinda funny to realize that Lean is apparently so slow that for Fermat's Last Theorem proof verification runs only 1 order of magnitude faster than agents could generate the Lean code (15h verification with 230GB of RAM vs 11 days to generate it).
To what extent can you optimize Lean? It has to be simple enough to be auditable, does that mean you cannot use opaque optimizations to make it run faster?
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#8People are exhausted from being told/shown the thing they thought was special or unique or could make them relevant, is another mechanical puzzle that can be solved without joy.
I don’t see that doing anything but intensifying in the short term
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#9People seem to be talking about anything except the actual results with this particular announcement. Its still astonishing that any sort of generalized computer program can solve a problem of this magnitude, and we have witnessed it happening in real time. I'd be curious to see if the new model can also do more direct proofs/inductive proofs.
Unless they just swiped the workbooks of the actual mathematicians that where working on the problem using AI and it's in the "next-gen" training dataset.
Re: OpenAI’s Navier-Stokes release included a Lean 4 formal proof
#10I heard a rumor (on instagram, so YMMV) that the professor who was closest to solving this problem had only weeks ago used Codex, which had slurped up all his notes on the subject. Now OpenAI's agents solve the problem. If it's true that seems like quite a coincidence.