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Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

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Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#201

Post by lovich »

paimapi wrote: post #112
lovich wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re referring to Ukraine as one of the two, we already heavily reduced our support under Trump and there is no chance in hell that removing the leftover support causes Ukraine to capitulate by tomorrows, especially after recent territory gains and destruction of Russian logistical supply lines with Wildberries and their refinery infrastructure. Also if the other is Iran, lol at “stopped supporting respective be…

I think the other example is Israel which seems like the much more obviously belligerent, actively colonial nation state that the US is largely propping up (and wouldn't exist otherwise) also, arguably, the half-century of creating, establishing, funding, and build-up of NATO largely supersedes the point that Trump cut spending there temporarily. that all came from American coffers and the current conflict there is a…

Israel vs Palestine is not a major conflict, especially given the one sided nature of the fight.

Israel + US vs Iran is a majorish conflict but the US is directly a belligerent in that one.

> also, arguably, the half-century of creating, establishing, funding, and build-up of NATO largely supersedes the point that Trump cut spending there temporarily. that all came from American coffers and the current conflict there is a long hangover from that

Glossing over the Russian propaganda points accusing a defensive pact as a reason for starting a war, that still means that the conflict “ could be over tomorrow” is incorrect even if the US ended all support today.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#202

Post by monideas »

shimman wrote: post #161
monideas wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly how most people engage with politics across the US (and all over the world) and I am not an immigrant tech worker. Both of my grandfathers served in WW2 in the US military.

Don't really believe you, looking at past comments you don't really come across as someone raised in America while also being completely unaware of what local politics looks like or how US citizens engage with politics. Not too mention the completely sociopathic comments made above. Are you trying to fool me or Stephen Miller here?

I was born and raised and lived in America up until my mid 30s. I am just very clearpilled or perhaps blackpilled on the nature of things in the US. I am completely aware of how people engage in politics and I’ve lived all around the US, things just get worse and worse. Fortunately I am no longer subject to the insanity and I don’t really care anymore.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#203

Post by JumpCrisscross »

paimapi wrote: post #196
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> colonial nation state that the US is largely propping up (and wouldn't exist otherwise) This is a baseless, American-centric notion I've heard frequently in New York and San Francisco. If America pulled support from Israel, it would find partners in other countries. India and China are at the top of the list–they want Israeli weapons technology and intelligence. Russia would probably play too. And depending on the…

oh? I didn't know China and Russia had such solid relationships with Israel. my understanding was that Israel has been repeatedly condemned by both and last I heard, the free-trade agreement with them has been stalled for years. but what do I know?

> my understanding was that Israel has been repeatedly condemned by both and last I heard, the free-trade agreement with them has been stalled for years. but what do I know?

India-Israel trade has been growing since diplomatic relations between the nations were established in 1992 (including since the war in Gaza) [1]. In 2025 they signed a bilateral investment agreement. And Israel is a growing defence provider to India.

I know less about the China relationship, but it remains a major trading partner with Isrel [2]. (I do not believe there are significant military relations. China has recently been calling what Israel is doing in Gaza a genocide, and I'll note they started doing this a year ago, before Trump bungled into Iran, though for obvious reasons Beijing isn't dwelling on the question.)

Russia is currently embedded with Iran, but nothing about that is geostrategic. Israel and the USSR once had close relations. Putin needs weapons for Ukraine. An Israel searching desperately for partners would be useful to Moscow.

Note, too, that both China and India have governments in power that explicitly reject the rights of their domestic Muslim populations.

[1] https://www.indembassyisrael.gov.in/pages?id=nel5a&subid=7ax...

[2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/22/which-countries-tra...

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#204

Post by lovich »

paimapi wrote: post #197
lovich wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why so many people take it as a given that Israel only exists because of America. They used to be aligned with the USSR and we did a lot of work to peel them off into our own domain. They also have their own military industrial complex and are perfectly capable of manufacturing the weapons they need domestically. They also have nukes.

it probably has something to do with the fact that a full 2% of their GDP comes from US military aid alone: https://www.cfr.org/articles/us-aid-israel-four-charts

And they can redirect resources to the war if we removed it.

If anything, removal of our support probably leads to the use of dumber less targeted weapons like carpet bombing or good ole white phosphorus that they’ve already demonstrated use of in past conflicts.

If we were giving them 30+% of their gdp then yea, dropping that probably stops the conflict. 2% is just a budget reshuffle.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#205

Post by sebzim4500 »

throw0101d wrote: post #159
chanakya wrote: post #22

Serious question: should companies not participate in contracts from their country's defense department? Or is the argument that it's only US companies which shouldn't, because the US is uniquely evil?

> * Or is the argument that it's only US companies which shouldn't, because the* US is uniquely evil? What are the (current?) foreign policy goals of the country in question? If it leans more defensive, like Japan, that's different than a country that may have a more interventionist bent. Also what product(s) is the company developing or offering (field hospital equipment or are we talking about Palantir)?

What if it's interventionist but those interventions are clearly good? Think US in the 90s.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#206

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

Manuel_D wrote: post #144
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries probably focus quite a bit more on the defense aspect. How many times has the US military countered a hostile attacking force? Instead, I can think of significantly more instances where the US was instigating the situation.

The US stopped countless wars from starting in the first place due to deterrence. Look at Ukraine to see what happens to a country that isn't part of an alliance like NATO.

Ukraine seems to be what happens when a country willingly gave up their nukes (with US encouragement).

I have no problem if the US navy wants to tool around shipping lanes for the good of global trade. I take issue with everything else.

In the past couple of years, the US has implicitly used the strength of its military to threaten the sovereignty of Greenland, Panama, Canada, Mexico, and Cuba. Abducted a foreign head of state. Started a war. Bombed drug runners and fishermen.

The death toll for the Iraq war is heavily contested, but the numbers are somewhere in the region of 200k to one million dead. All under the guise of WMDs.

Like any large organization, there is a mixture of good and bad outcomes.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#207

Post by slowin »

EA-3167 wrote: post #171
5upplied_demand wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If quitting a job is "performative" what would you consider a "non-performative" act? Ironically, you are doing your own preaching in your comments. It could even be described as "performative."

Oh God I realized the issue here, I didn't make myself clear: Talking about doing something on a 4 month old account is not the same as doing it. I give credit to people for doing things, not claiming to do them in an anonymous forum they just joined. Cynical? Perhaps, but maybe if people were just a bit more cynical about believing any text on the internet just because it feels better to believe it, we'd be better o…

You don't have to believe me, but I made my account after I quit. I wanted to be able to talk about what happened without doxxing myself and my old account was tied to my actual work.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#208

Post by tolerance »

throw0101d wrote: post #162
SllX wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defense was always just a euphemism for War. That’s not the signal you think it is.

> Defense was always just a euphemism for War. That’s not the signal you think it is. No, it was not. Tom Nichols, professor emiritus of national-security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College: > It is almost impossible to overstate the inanity of this move. The United States has a Department of Defense for a reason. It was called the “War” Department until 1947, when the dictates of a new and more dangerous world re…

I don't think that quote helps your case or detracts from the parent. Tangentially—and perhaps counterintuitively—it can be taken as an argument in favor of the name change.

The statement also does little to address the ethical concerns at the root of the relationship between industries and the military.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#209

Post by asdff »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #175
nater5000 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, if enough tech workers at Microsoft felt strongly about these ethical issues, they could influence Microsoft's decisions internally which is probably the most effective position to be in to do so. But all well, glad you can feel good about yourself by leaving so that someone with less concern about these ethical issues can fill the void and assert their own influence on the company instead.

> if enough tech workers at Microsoft felt strongly about these ethical issues, they could influence Microsoft's decisions internally This isn't how companies work or are structured. If you have the CEO's ear, potentially. If you don't, the only ethical thing to do is to quit. (I don't personally have an issue with the military per se . I have other issues with several tech companies which would make taking a job the…

If something bad is going on and you don't agree and you quit, that is just absolving you of your guilt. I mean think two steps ahead. Is M$ going to go "gee, Jimbo quit, maybe the project is just no good and we ought to stop." Hell no. They will fill your position with someone who will be thankful for the opportunity. And I think ultimately you know it, but a bit of cognitive dissonance makes you think you did something.

Why are so many people supposedly principled but not militant about it? A principled militant would use their role in m$ as an opportunity to be an anchor to the efficiency of the operation that they do not agree with. They will fight to keep their position such that a more effective less moral person might not take it over and get the project moving.

One has to wonder how many projects in the world are in such a holding pattern, protected by people who had the foresight to think two steps ahead, attempting to keep their body holding that door shut as they possibly can.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#210

Post by JumpCrisscross »

SllX wrote: post #200
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s still the same organization maintaining the same mission operating under the same budget WWII demonstrated wars of conquest don't work in the industrial age. When America and its Department of War and Navy were founded, invasion and conquest could still be done profitably. WWII showed that was no longer true–industrial machinery and skilled workers are destroyed by invasion and even base resources quickly beco…

Whether a war is fought defensively or offensively, war is still war. I don’t have a lot of patience for the romantic notions of men, that changing one word in a bureaucratic ensemble of Departments is going to change meaning of what it means to go to war or the reality of war itself. Only how we actually prosecute our wars & handle the subsequent consequences of war will give them any meaning.

> Whether a war is fought defensively or offensively, war is still war

Someone being invaded should lay down arms because invasion and fighting an invader are morally equal?

> that changing one word in a bureaucratic ensemble of Departments is going to change meaning of what it means to go to war or the reality of war itself

Department of War celebrates an era when wars of conquest were profitably fought. It explicitly embraces the notion that war is good and accretive to America. Renaming something the Department of War means we're going to have more wars. America being America, they're mostly going to be offensive.

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