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Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

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Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#191

Post by tessierashpool »

chasd00 wrote: post #138
tessierashpool wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to say it, but this is mostly true. reason I hate to say it is because companies like Palantir and Anduril are clearly pursuing political objectives, including subverting governance by creating tools which set the frame and context that governance happens in. if Palantir and Anduril were observing the same strict separation between political and military matters, and the same strict separation between domestic…

> Palantir and Anduril are clearly pursuing political objectives How so? I honestly haven't heard this before. I like Anduril's tech and have some friends who work there. I would be excited to work at Anduril but my skills have diverged away from what they do and so I wouldn't make a very good hire.

you might wonder, reading this, how a person could say "I honestly haven't heard this before" about such a widely-discussed topic, in a thread about that topic, when the OP is a paper about a very closely related topic. it is, under the circumstances, a surprising assertion.

the purpose of propaganda is not to convince the ignorant or skeptical, but to exhaust and/or discredit opponents.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#192

Post by antii »

beloch wrote: post #111
chanakya wrote: post #22

Serious question: should companies not participate in contracts from their country's defense department? Or is the argument that it's only US companies which shouldn't, because the US is uniquely evil?

There is an undeniable conflict between "Don't be evil." and "Evil pays.". A lot of what militaries do can be best described as the lesser of two evils. Murdering people is bad, but sometimes a little murder can prevent a lot of murder. However ethically or unethically a state uses force, there's usually a lot of money to be had in supplying that state with the means of force. Is there room for ethics in military res…

[dead]

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#193

Post by monideas »

dgellow wrote: post #169
monideas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there's definitely a global reckoning happening, people are not having children in developed countries due to very serious social ills (every developed country except for Israel of course).

Diminishing birth rates doesn’t actually correlate with what you call socials ills. The strongest correlation I’m aware of is with the education level. It’s a worldwide phenomenon, not something that only impacts developed countries

If people are not having children then the society is dying. That indicates there are social ills, by definition.

“Education level” is probably also an indication of social ills and a social ill itself given that most people are not suited for higher education. Most “higher education” in the US is abject slop and partying for 4 years. College used to be restricted to the aristocracy and particularly promising students.

If you take a young person who is already not of an elite quality and subject them to slop and partying, campus meal plans, basically unproductive day care for 4 years that also fills their heads with nonsense that is obviously going to do a lot of damage to them, especially young women who are especially impressionable.

It’s also worth noting that while Israel does have universities, as a societal intuition they function very differently. Young people serve in the army first for 2-3 years or they do university with a deferral and then serve in specialized roles in the army based on their degree. It’s not slop and partying for 4 years starting at 18. And it’s normal to not go to university at all.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#194

Post by tessierashpool »

laimewhisps wrote: post #177
tessierashpool wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judaism != Israel this conflation is extremely unhelpful

I don't see them conflating Zionism and Judaism. 100% of Zionists will reference the Holocaust as one of the justifications for committing genocide against the Palestinians. I think the parent is pointing that out.

I disagree, but you could be right. however, if so, then they should have pointed out this distinction themselves.

also, there was conflict between Jewish Palestinians and Muslim Palestinians long before the Holocaust. Zionists were trying to take over in the late days of the Ottoman Empire.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#195

Post by lovich »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #186
paimapi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the other example is Israel which seems like the much more obviously belligerent, actively colonial nation state that the US is largely propping up (and wouldn't exist otherwise) also, arguably, the half-century of creating, establishing, funding, and build-up of NATO largely supersedes the point that Trump cut spending there temporarily. that all came from American coffers and the current conflict there is a…

> colonial nation state that the US is largely propping up (and wouldn't exist otherwise) This is a baseless, American-centric notion I've heard frequently in New York and San Francisco. If America pulled support from Israel, it would find partners in other countries. India and China are at the top of the list–they want Israeli weapons technology and intelligence. Russia would probably play too. And depending on the…

I don’t know why so many people take it as a given that Israel only exists because of America.

They used to be aligned with the USSR and we did a lot of work to peel them off into our own domain. They also have their own military industrial complex and are perfectly capable of manufacturing the weapons they need domestically.

They also have nukes.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#196

Post by paimapi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #186
paimapi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the other example is Israel which seems like the much more obviously belligerent, actively colonial nation state that the US is largely propping up (and wouldn't exist otherwise) also, arguably, the half-century of creating, establishing, funding, and build-up of NATO largely supersedes the point that Trump cut spending there temporarily. that all came from American coffers and the current conflict there is a…

> colonial nation state that the US is largely propping up (and wouldn't exist otherwise) This is a baseless, American-centric notion I've heard frequently in New York and San Francisco. If America pulled support from Israel, it would find partners in other countries. India and China are at the top of the list–they want Israeli weapons technology and intelligence. Russia would probably play too. And depending on the…

oh? I didn't know China and Russia had such solid relationships with Israel. my understanding was that Israel has been repeatedly condemned by both and last I heard, the free-trade agreement with them has been stalled for years. but what do I know?

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#197

Post by paimapi »

lovich wrote: post #195
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> colonial nation state that the US is largely propping up (and wouldn't exist otherwise) This is a baseless, American-centric notion I've heard frequently in New York and San Francisco. If America pulled support from Israel, it would find partners in other countries. India and China are at the top of the list–they want Israeli weapons technology and intelligence. Russia would probably play too. And depending on the…

I don’t know why so many people take it as a given that Israel only exists because of America. They used to be aligned with the USSR and we did a lot of work to peel them off into our own domain. They also have their own military industrial complex and are perfectly capable of manufacturing the weapons they need domestically. They also have nukes.

it probably has something to do with the fact that a full 2% of their GDP comes from US military aid alone: https://www.cfr.org/articles/us-aid-israel-four-charts

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#198

Post by seizethecheese »

hkchad wrote: post #27

Transforming? You guys do know where google got it's start right? SV has been DOD funded from the start.

Huh, I learned something new but also your post is misleading. According to what I read after reading your comment:

- google founders’ research was funded from federal grants.

- federal grant was administered by National Science Foundation (not DoD) with funding from DARPA (yes DoD) and NASA (not DoD?).

Google itself was fully funded by private investors, only the research was *partially DoD funded.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#199

Post by asdff »

chanakya wrote: post #22

Serious question: should companies not participate in contracts from their country's defense department? Or is the argument that it's only US companies which shouldn't, because the US is uniquely evil?

No need to get serious. Only a sith deals in absolutes. There's plenty of work within the us military that is definitely not evil. Even within the field of weapons development. You could say develop a target selection approach that is less likely to blow up a school halfway across the world than existing approaches. You are literally saving lives working on that project, despite what the people who only see in black and white and make grandstand positions online might think.

Re: Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

#200

Post by SllX »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #179
SllX wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was originally entitled “Department of War” and was changed after World War II for better PR. Whether it is called “Department of War” or “Department of Defense”, it’s still the same organization maintaining the same mission operating under the same budget. Personally, I view “Department of War” as more honest, because War has always been its business.

> it’s still the same organization maintaining the same mission operating under the same budget WWII demonstrated wars of conquest don't work in the industrial age. When America and its Department of War and Navy were founded, invasion and conquest could still be done profitably. WWII showed that was no longer true–industrial machinery and skilled workers are destroyed by invasion and even base resources quickly beco…

Whether a war is fought defensively or offensively, war is still war. I don’t have a lot of patience for the romantic notions of men, that changing one word in a bureaucratic ensemble of Departments is going to change meaning of what it means to go to war or the reality of war itself. Only how we actually prosecute our wars & handle the subsequent consequences of war will give them any meaning.
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